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thomas campbell is the author of my big

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toe

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that is my big theory of everything and

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is a former nuclear physicist

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he's also one of the most requested

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guests of this channel

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recalling that this channel is dedicated

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to explicating on theories of everything

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keep in mind that he calls it a big toe

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as opposed to a small toe because he

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makes the delineation that a big toe is

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supposed to be responsible for the

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fundamental laws of physics

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an explanation as to what consciousness

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is or how consciousness arises

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how should we interact with one another

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why are we here what is god is there a

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god etc

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as opposed to a small toe which he

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describes as being strictly about the

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fundamental laws of physics in

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mathematical form

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like the donald hoffman interview this

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is likely the most

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technical interview that you'll see with

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thomas campbell and that's because i

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think only asking simple questions that

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let's say a layman can understand you

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necessarily give the wrong impression

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because you distort the truth in the

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simplification

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if you'll allow me a two-minute aside

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i'll explain or you can just click the

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timestamp and skip ahead straight to the

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interview

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i have a mini rant about being taught

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that the wave function is a function

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when it's not and i'm not talking about

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qft or even quantum gravity i'm talking

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about simple quantum mechanics you're

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taught it's a function but it's not the

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wave function is technically a smooth

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section which is completely different

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than a function

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you'll get into trouble if you think of

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it as a function a smooth section on a

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complex line bundle

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with a base manifold and that's not

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incorporating relativity has nothing to

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do with relativity and you need this in

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order to do quantum mechanics on simple

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curved surfaces like a sphere

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another example where the simplification

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or the imprecise idea

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being conveyed is simply wrong is that

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the wave function is a square integrable

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member

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of a hilbert space it's not and you know

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this because

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if you just use the momentum operator on

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a box function well it's not defined

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right at the edges even though it's

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square integrable and that's a simple

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function

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these are examples where i was told the

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simplified truth or the imprecise truth

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but it fails in elementary cases and it

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leads to unnecessary

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headaches therefore i keep the level of

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precision in these podcasts as high as i

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possibly can

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because you're extremely bright and

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motivated

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no one is telling you to watch this

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you're watching this of your own

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volition your open

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your astute streamlining and simplifying

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is done on many

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channels there's nothing wrong with that

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you can go to lex friedman or joe rogan

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for that if you like

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it's just that it's a saturated market

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and i'm wholly

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uninterested the ramifications at least

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for me

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of simplifying is worse than intricacy

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but mainly there's also the aspect that

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the audience that is you

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seem to be more engaged extremely

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engaged when i'm engaged that is that i

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actually want to know the answers to the

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questions i'm asking

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i'm not asking well what are your top

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three favorite books what inspires you

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i don't care about that i want to know

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what is the relationship between

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the paranormal psy and jung

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synchronicity thomas why do you define

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consciousness as that which has

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evolutionary potential

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why do you call life a turing machine

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when it seems pretty clear that there's

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a physical trade-off between structure

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function complexity and

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genomic length which doesn't

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characterize a turing machine's tape

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either way you get the idea you're here

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to listen to thomas campbell

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let's get started enjoy tom why don't

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you tell the audience what you're

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working on these days

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well i suspect what you're referring to

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working on these days is

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uh the my big toe since you are

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obviously interested in theories of

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everything

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that's one of your subjects of interest

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um my big toe

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uh was called my not because i'm so

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proud of it

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it's because if it's not your experience

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then it can't be your truth so my big

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toe is basically

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based on my experience my research

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and my conclusions and

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my big toe should just be perhaps a

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structure or a platform for

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each person to build their own big top

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it's it's not something to be believed

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belief is is a problem belief gets in

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the way where you have a belief

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you put yourself what behind a wall

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you don't then let in other information

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that conflicts with that belief

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so beliefs are always a problem to

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you know to understanding you know the

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big picture

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so i would not encourage anybody to

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believe my model but to

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look at it and see if it applies to

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their

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life so i'm a physicist let's just give

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you a little overview at you know my big

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toe it's a it's a model of everything

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it's a big toe not just a toe mostly

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when you hear about toes

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they're not really about everything

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they're a theory of

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physics there's a very they're a theory

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of

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fundamental science within this universe

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you know the science of our universe

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that's what they are

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and what they leave out

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is everything that is subjective in

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other words

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consciousness you know attitudes

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feelings

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everything that's in the

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subjective world and if you think about

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it

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most of our world that is important to

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us

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does fall in this subjective side the

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objective world

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of physicists and i'm a physicist but

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the objective world of physics

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is basically just a subset of the world

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that we live in

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and interact in and it's i would say

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a minor subset it's the it's the stage

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it's the props

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it's all the stuff um

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important things in our life like who

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should i marry

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should i take this job or that job you

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know uh

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that sort of thing big things that

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change our lives change our thinking now

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what book should i read

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all of these choices are not objective

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choices

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of our

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more meaningful experiences like love

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you know

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justice truth all these things are

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subjective

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you know you know or at least have large

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components

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of subjectiveness in them so

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a theory of everything has to also be a

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theory of the subjective world

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as well as the objective world otherwise

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you've just got a little tao

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which is just the theory of the

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objective world so mai tai was a bit

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different

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and mine started with

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or i should say mine starts with

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consciousness as a fundamental

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and the reason that i came to that is

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that i was in graduate school in physics

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working on my phd in experimental

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nuclear

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physics and

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i found out just quite by accident that

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i could debug my

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my computer code now back in those days

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this is the old days in computer code

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i'm talking about boxes of cards you

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know that sort of thing

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and debugging was a huge problem

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not like the day where you have

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debuggers and instant terminals and

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access

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to you know to the computers and so on

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and those days

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there was a big central computer and it

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took up a whole building

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and it was not as powerful as your

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telephone is today

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it was probably only a hundredth or a

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thousandth as powerful as your cell

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phone is today

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and the whole school the whole

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university

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ran on that one computer there were no

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there were no

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desktops so you've got to stand in line

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in a queue

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and if you got one or two jobs run a

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week

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well lucky you so if that job

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ran because and bombed because you had

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an error

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well you just lost a week for your

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research you see so

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debugging was something people spent a

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lot of time

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focused on so that they didn't have to

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wait forever to get their

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their research done and their and their

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their ideas

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worked out so in any case i found that

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in my mind

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i could bring up a picture in a

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meditation state i learned to meditate

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while i was in graduate school

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and i learned because the advertisement

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said that you could get by with less

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sleep

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and in graduate school that just was

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was a real big plus for me so that's why

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i

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red

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that was an intention of mine i wanted

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to be able to see them and i just did

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this kind of on a wild hair you know

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kind of a

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lark well i'm in a meditation state

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let's see what i can do

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and i checked it out and it was correct

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those lines of code were

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actually the ones that had problems and

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in these days a problem wasn't because

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necessarily you

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it incorrectly maybe the the key punch

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was just off a hair

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if those little holes didn't line up

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exactly right with the reader

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you'd get an error you know so you may

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have done all the right things but the

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machine

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was a little off that punched holes so

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that as a physicist that hit me like

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with a like a ton of bricks uh what was

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going on here how could i

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do that there was no physical process

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going on it was entirely a mental

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process and how could my mental process

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find things like key punch errors

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you know that's was just crazy

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so i played with it and i played with it

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and i found that i got better with it

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with practice

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and that i could decode my stuff very

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i mean you know debug it very very

288
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quickly

289
00:10:04,630 --> 00:10:03,440
so as a physicist what that told me was

290
00:10:09,990 --> 00:10:04,640
that my

291
00:10:13,990 --> 00:10:10,000
my idea that reality

292
00:10:17,750 --> 00:10:14,000
is measurable if it's not measurable

293
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:17,760
in other words this is called a um

294
00:10:21,910 --> 00:10:20,320
what's the word for the uh it's like if

295
00:10:22,949 --> 00:10:21,920
you can't interact with it

296
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:22,959
you know if you're talking about

297
00:10:25,829 --> 00:10:24,399
something you say oh this is real but

298
00:10:26,470 --> 00:10:25,839
you can't interact with it you can't see

299
00:10:28,630 --> 00:10:26,480
it can't

300
00:10:29,590 --> 00:10:28,640
operationalism yeah it's an operational

301
00:10:32,630 --> 00:10:29,600
definition

302
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:32,640
of reality exactly so i

303
00:10:36,069 --> 00:10:34,959
as a physicist that was my attitude

304
00:10:39,670 --> 00:10:36,079
toward reality it's

305
00:10:42,230 --> 00:10:39,680
it's an operational reality so

306
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:42,240
i realized that wasn't true that there

307
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:43,839
was more to reality

308
00:10:48,150 --> 00:10:46,560
than just what you could measure what

309
00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:48,160
you could do operations on

310
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:50,959
it had another whole component to it

311
00:10:56,949 --> 00:10:53,680
that was more tied up to mental

312
00:11:00,790 --> 00:10:56,959
than to physical it was subjective

313
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:00,800
not objective so i just

314
00:11:05,190 --> 00:11:03,120
kind of had that as an idea wow i'd like

315
00:11:07,990 --> 00:11:05,200
to find out more about this because

316
00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:08,000
as a physicist my job was to model

317
00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,720
reality to understand how reality works

318
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:12,720
and i realized there was this whole big

319
00:11:17,110 --> 00:11:14,560
piece of reality

320
00:11:18,710 --> 00:11:17,120
that was outside of what i had thought

321
00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:18,720
was possible

322
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:20,560
so i just walked around with that i

323
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:22,880
didn't really know what to do about it

324
00:11:26,710 --> 00:11:23,600
or how to

325
00:11:28,949 --> 00:11:26,720
deal with it other than it was there

326
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:28,959
and it wasn't a matter of did i just

327
00:11:31,350 --> 00:11:29,760
imagine that

328
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,360
that was ridiculous of course i didn't

329
00:11:33,590 --> 00:11:33,120
imagine i can't imagine that oh this

330
00:11:35,509 --> 00:11:33,600
whole

331
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:35,519
you know is one hundredth of a

332
00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:38,720
millimeter you know too far to the right

333
00:11:44,630 --> 00:11:41,760
that's not something you can imagine so

334
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,640
in any case when i got out of graduate

335
00:11:49,990 --> 00:11:46,240
school took a job

336
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:50,000
and as you know luck would have it

337
00:11:53,590 --> 00:11:52,880
about probably four five six months into

338
00:11:57,750 --> 00:11:53,600
my first

339
00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,760
job as a physicist i

340
00:12:00,790 --> 00:12:00,000
was nuclear physicist correct yeah

341
00:12:06,870 --> 00:12:00,800
nuclear

342
00:12:08,710 --> 00:12:06,880
we worked with a big van de graaff

343
00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,720
accelerator so

344
00:12:12,150 --> 00:12:10,720
you know 5 mev was about as far as we

345
00:12:16,069 --> 00:12:12,160
could go as far as

346
00:12:19,350 --> 00:12:16,079
energy went so anyway

347
00:12:19,750 --> 00:12:19,360
i was introduced to bob monroe i got to

348
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:19,760
meet

349
00:12:24,629 --> 00:12:22,320
bob monroe now bob monroe had written

350
00:12:28,230 --> 00:12:24,639
books called journey out of the body

351
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:28,240
and at that time and i read that book

352
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:28,560
and

353
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:31,440
my opinion of it was well if this is

354
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:33,120
probably just trying to sell books you

355
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:34,560
know this guy's writing making up a

356
00:12:38,389 --> 00:12:35,200
story

357
00:12:38,710 --> 00:12:38,399
making it up and he's just and you read

358
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:38,720
this

359
00:12:41,750 --> 00:12:40,240
book after your transcendental

360
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:41,760
meditation sessions

361
00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:44,800
no i read this like three

362
00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,000
years after i become you know

363
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:50,639
about three years after uh i learned how

364
00:12:54,310 --> 00:12:52,000
to do meditation

365
00:12:55,910 --> 00:12:54,320
it was a long time i got a job and

366
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:55,920
actually it was my boss

367
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:57,760
tossed me into this group by bob monroe

368
00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:59,200
and said read this book

369
00:13:02,949 --> 00:13:01,839
and i read it just read it because you

370
00:13:05,990 --> 00:13:02,959
got to be kidding

371
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:06,000
journeys out of the body boss really

372
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:08,240
but i read it and i told him you know

373
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:09,519
he's either making it up

374
00:13:14,069 --> 00:13:13,200
to get money or it's indicative of

375
00:13:16,710 --> 00:13:14,079
another

376
00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:16,720
piece of reality that we just don't know

377
00:13:20,150 --> 00:13:17,200
about

378
00:13:20,629 --> 00:13:20,160
but how can we tell is he for real or is

379
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:20,639
he

380
00:13:27,190 --> 00:13:24,880
open to reality being bigger than just a

381
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:27,200
physical because of my experiences some

382
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:29,200
three years ago you know in graduate

383
00:13:33,990 --> 00:13:31,200
school being able to debug code

384
00:13:34,710 --> 00:13:34,000
so i was open-minded to perhaps there's

385
00:13:38,629 --> 00:13:34,720
more

386
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:38,639
in mind space

387
00:13:43,670 --> 00:13:41,760
not in physical space so we went out

388
00:13:45,509 --> 00:13:43,680
just to get some acronyms out of the way

389
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:45,519
there's pmr which is physical matter

390
00:13:48,949 --> 00:13:47,120
reality right

391
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,959
and then there's npmr is which is

392
00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:50,160
non-physical matter

393
00:13:54,389 --> 00:13:52,480
reality right okay okay yeah and

394
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:54,399
basically there's that definition is

395
00:13:56,949 --> 00:13:55,279
that pmr

396
00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:56,959
is what we call our physical universe

397
00:14:02,230 --> 00:13:58,959
it's what we call physical

398
00:14:05,189 --> 00:14:02,240
okay and that the npmr

399
00:14:06,310 --> 00:14:05,199
is everything else anything else so when

400
00:14:08,949 --> 00:14:06,320
you dream

401
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:08,959
you're not the reality in your dream is

402
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,079
in nvmr

403
00:14:14,310 --> 00:14:12,240
it's not part of the physical world so

404
00:14:16,150 --> 00:14:14,320
it's just terminology that lets

405
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,160
me differentiate the physical world from

406
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:18,399
everything else

407
00:14:23,750 --> 00:14:22,000
so anyway my boss

408
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:23,760
found out where bob monroe lived it

409
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,160
wasn't that far from where we worked

410
00:14:33,990 --> 00:14:29,279
and we made an appointment to go see him

411
00:14:36,949 --> 00:14:34,000
and i did and he was a very

412
00:14:37,509 --> 00:14:36,959
wealthy guy he didn't need book sales he

413
00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:37,519
was way

414
00:14:41,590 --> 00:14:39,920
past the money that book sales bring in

415
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:41,600
and he was

416
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:43,920
he had a personality like an engineer he

417
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:45,920
was very you know he was bright but very

418
00:14:49,430 --> 00:14:46,639
factual

419
00:14:49,910 --> 00:14:49,440
you know very very clear he wasn't fuzzy

420
00:14:53,990 --> 00:14:49,920
headed

421
00:14:56,790 --> 00:14:54,000
and kind of on the on the crazy side

422
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:56,800
and he told us that he'd just built a

423
00:14:59,430 --> 00:14:57,360
lab

424
00:15:00,470 --> 00:14:59,440
to study consciousness because he wanted

425
00:15:03,350 --> 00:15:00,480
to bring

426
00:15:04,790 --> 00:15:03,360
science to this experience of his so he

427
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:04,800
wanted to study it and he was looking

428
00:15:07,509 --> 00:15:06,399
for some scientists that would help him

429
00:15:09,030 --> 00:15:07,519
study so i

430
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:09,040
shot my hand up in the air you know i've

431
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:12,720
been a student like for 30 years yes i

432
00:15:18,790 --> 00:15:16,240
put my hand up in the air right away and

433
00:15:19,350 --> 00:15:18,800
about a month or so later i was making

434
00:15:22,389 --> 00:15:19,360
trips

435
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:22,399
you know every week you know out to the

436
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:23,040
lab

437
00:15:27,670 --> 00:15:25,600
and starting to actually first we had to

438
00:15:30,870 --> 00:15:27,680
build equipment in the lab we built the

439
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:30,880
equipment with eeg we built the gsrs and

440
00:15:34,389 --> 00:15:31,920
other things to

441
00:15:35,110 --> 00:15:34,399
what are gsrs that's a galvanic skin

442
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:35,120
response

443
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:38,639
it basically measures skin resistivity

444
00:15:40,629 --> 00:15:40,399
you know the resistance of your skin to

445
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:40,639
a

446
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:51,360
up if you're very excited it goes down

447
00:15:54,389 --> 00:15:53,279
you know like a neurophysiological

448
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:54,399
measurement yeah

449
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,680
it's something that tells you a little

450
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:57,920
bit about something of mine we didn't

451
00:16:04,150 --> 00:16:01,199
you know we were trying to

452
00:16:06,629 --> 00:16:04,160
measure whatever we could and there's

453
00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:06,639
not a lot that measures

454
00:16:11,749 --> 00:16:09,440
things that are primarily mental you

455
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,759
know so eeg and gsr were two of the

456
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:13,360
things that we could do and we could

457
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,399
afford so we

458
00:16:17,829 --> 00:16:16,880
we built most of the equipment we wired

459
00:16:20,629 --> 00:16:17,839
the lab

460
00:16:22,389 --> 00:16:20,639
we we uh kind of set things up and then

461
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:22,399
we got in the booths and bob would come

462
00:16:27,030 --> 00:16:22,959
up

463
00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:27,040
and teach us what he knew about

464
00:16:31,829 --> 00:16:30,000
observing and interacting with this

465
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:31,839
larger reality which is

466
00:16:37,749 --> 00:16:34,880
outside this physical universe

467
00:16:38,470 --> 00:16:37,759
in other words mind space and of course

468
00:16:40,949 --> 00:16:38,480
myself

469
00:16:42,629 --> 00:16:40,959
and an electrical engineer came with me

470
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,639
we said we were both in this together we

471
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,000
both worked at the same

472
00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:46,720
place and our idea was well if this

473
00:16:50,389 --> 00:16:48,720
turns out to be a lot of hocus pocus you

474
00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:50,399
know we're out of here but

475
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:52,160
if it turns out that we really learned

476
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:54,000
something then great we were both

477
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,480
excited about the possibilities of of

478
00:16:59,430 --> 00:16:58,079
learning something so the deal was that

479
00:17:02,310 --> 00:16:59,440
we'd help bob

480
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:02,320
and we would be free we wouldn't cost

481
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:03,120
him anything

482
00:17:07,909 --> 00:17:06,240
and and that he would teach us so we

483
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:07,919
could experience it because if we just

484
00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:09,439
examined him

485
00:17:15,110 --> 00:17:13,120
well you know you can if you learn about

486
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:15,120
something that you study but you've

487
00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:16,799
never experienced

488
00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:18,720
it's never quite real we wanted to

489
00:17:22,069 --> 00:17:20,720
experience it so we could find it out

490
00:17:23,990 --> 00:17:22,079
for ourselves

491
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:24,000
or you know how real it was made it more

492
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,760
objective for us

493
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:27,600
even though it was still in a subjective

494
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,280
space so he did

495
00:17:32,390 --> 00:17:31,120
every you know we came out there a

496
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:32,400
couple of days a week

497
00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:36,000
and he tried to teach us to experience

498
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,480
mental space things in mental space and

499
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:40,240
what dennis and i wanted to do is let's

500
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,760
prove that this is real

501
00:17:45,270 --> 00:17:43,360
to ourselves not just something we're

502
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:45,280
imagining not just something we're

503
00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,160
making up but

504
00:17:52,789 --> 00:17:49,520
is it real so we started doing

505
00:17:55,590 --> 00:17:52,799
things that were evidential

506
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:55,600
um you know like remote viewing things

507
00:17:59,110 --> 00:17:57,039
are very evidential

508
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:59,120
you know we go in get in our booths and

509
00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:01,120
the booths we had were isolation booths

510
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:01,760
they all were

511
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:05,360
uh um acoustically isolated from each

512
00:18:08,470 --> 00:18:06,960
other and one of them was a faraday cage

513
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:08,480
which was electromagnetic oh

514
00:18:11,430 --> 00:18:09,840
great i was going to ask you about that

515
00:18:13,190 --> 00:18:11,440
yeah one was a faraday cage that's the

516
00:18:14,789 --> 00:18:13,200
one i got in was the faraday cage and

517
00:18:15,830 --> 00:18:14,799
one dennis there was actually three

518
00:18:17,590 --> 00:18:15,840
booths in a row

519
00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:17,600
i got in number one dennis got number

520
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:19,200
three so there was an empty one between

521
00:18:23,510 --> 00:18:19,919
us

522
00:18:25,190 --> 00:18:23,520
greater than

523
00:18:27,830 --> 00:18:25,200
than it would be for two consecutive

524
00:18:28,470 --> 00:18:27,840
booths but so we did we got in these

525
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:28,480
booths

526
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:30,720
and there's a microphone coming down

527
00:18:35,830 --> 00:18:32,960
from the ceiling just above our lips

528
00:18:37,029 --> 00:18:35,840
and bob would help us get into the

529
00:18:39,510 --> 00:18:37,039
mental state

530
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,520
and gave us exercises and things to do

531
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:41,039
and we would tell him what we were

532
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:42,400
experiencing

533
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:46,160
and that way he could be more effective

534
00:18:50,549 --> 00:18:47,360
in guiding us

535
00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:50,559
but bob was very careful about not

536
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:52,320
leading the witness you know he wasn't

537
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,640
saying well now you should see this

538
00:18:58,310 --> 00:18:56,400
he would never say that because that's

539
00:19:00,230 --> 00:18:58,320
leading people to say something

540
00:19:02,310 --> 00:19:00,240
he would just say do this and this and

541
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:02,320
this now what do you see

542
00:19:06,870 --> 00:19:05,600
and so we did this and we pride

543
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:06,880
evidential things

544
00:19:11,110 --> 00:19:08,960
remote viewing is one of the obvious

545
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:11,120
ones and we did other things too

546
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:14,640
we did you know mental healing and we

547
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,039
did

548
00:19:21,590 --> 00:19:18,559
uh collecting

549
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:21,600
data trying to get information from

550
00:19:25,590 --> 00:19:23,600
however we could get information mental

551
00:19:26,549 --> 00:19:25,600
healing of who of yourself or of someone

552
00:19:28,390 --> 00:19:26,559
else

553
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:28,400
of other people of other people that we

554
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,320
knew about who had illnesses

555
00:19:33,750 --> 00:19:32,480
we did we did that but you have to do

556
00:19:35,669 --> 00:19:33,760
that hundreds of times

557
00:19:37,110 --> 00:19:35,679
to collect statistics on whether or not

558
00:19:38,070 --> 00:19:37,120
you're having an effect you know you

559
00:19:39,750 --> 00:19:38,080
don't know

560
00:19:41,110 --> 00:19:39,760
somebody could just get better and may

561
00:19:43,350 --> 00:19:41,120
not have anything to do with

562
00:19:44,950 --> 00:19:43,360
what you did but we would work on people

563
00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:44,960
sometimes that had chronic things they'd

564
00:19:47,029 --> 00:19:45,360
been

565
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:47,039
they'd had this chronic illness for you

566
00:19:52,710 --> 00:19:49,840
know three decades 30 years

567
00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:52,720
and they were outside of the medical

568
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:54,320
system because the medical system had

569
00:19:58,150 --> 00:19:56,320
said there's nothing else we can do

570
00:19:59,350 --> 00:19:58,160
and we would try to see if we could fix

571
00:20:01,110 --> 00:19:59,360
things like that so that's more

572
00:20:01,990 --> 00:20:01,120
evidential than just though somebody has

573
00:20:03,590 --> 00:20:02,000
a headache

574
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:03,600
oh my headache went away well it might

575
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:05,679
have gone away anyway you know so you

576
00:20:08,549 --> 00:20:06,880
have to have

577
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,559
you have to look at these things

578
00:20:13,110 --> 00:20:10,559
carefully but dennis and i were both

579
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:13,120
being very careful because we were both

580
00:20:17,110 --> 00:20:14,720
very skeptical

581
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:17,120
so bob did teach us and right just as an

582
00:20:21,190 --> 00:20:18,400
aside you mentioned that

583
00:20:22,549 --> 00:20:21,200
npmr isn't scientific but it sounds like

584
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:22,559
what you're saying is pmr

585
00:20:26,310 --> 00:20:24,159
that is our physical reality can

586
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:26,320
interact with mind space or npmr and

587
00:20:28,310 --> 00:20:26,559
then

588
00:20:29,909 --> 00:20:28,320
npmr can interact with us so you have

589
00:20:31,830 --> 00:20:29,919
transitivity which means that you can

590
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:31,840
have objective measures no yes you can

591
00:20:34,230 --> 00:20:32,960
have some that's what i mean by

592
00:20:35,909 --> 00:20:34,240
evidential things so

593
00:20:37,590 --> 00:20:35,919
these were the things these interactions

594
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,600
say we could remote view

595
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:39,120
we could see what was going on at a

596
00:20:42,310 --> 00:20:40,640
particular place we'd go get in our

597
00:20:43,110 --> 00:20:42,320
booths and bob would go into another

598
00:20:45,830 --> 00:20:43,120
room

599
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:45,840
and he'd write a you know like a five or

600
00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:47,280
six seven digit number you know on the

601
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:48,240
blackboard

602
00:20:52,149 --> 00:20:50,240
that he had in there and our job would

603
00:20:54,950 --> 00:20:52,159
be to to read it

604
00:20:56,070 --> 00:20:54,960
and in a sense we didn't do that in the

605
00:20:58,230 --> 00:20:56,080
sense of

606
00:21:00,149 --> 00:20:58,240
remote viewing we did that from the

607
00:21:02,310 --> 00:21:00,159
sense of going out of body going into

608
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:02,320
that room and looking at the blackboard

609
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:03,679
what's the difference between remote

610
00:21:08,149 --> 00:21:05,679
viewing and out of body almost

611
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:08,159
nothing the the belief of the person

612
00:21:12,070 --> 00:21:09,520
that's doing it that's

613
00:21:12,630 --> 00:21:12,080
uh that's the only difference the

614
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,640
function

615
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,640
they're really not any different it's

616
00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:16,480
just the way you believe

617
00:21:20,070 --> 00:21:18,799
that the mechanism works these were back

618
00:21:21,750 --> 00:21:20,080
in the early days and

619
00:21:23,990 --> 00:21:21,760
what's the difference in belief between

620
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:24,000
remote viewing and out of body

621
00:21:27,669 --> 00:21:25,679
well if you believe that you're remote

622
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:27,679
viewing then basically you

623
00:21:32,950 --> 00:21:30,960
are basically your vision okay

624
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,960
it's like you're tapping into a camera

625
00:21:35,350 --> 00:21:34,000
that's there yeah

626
00:21:37,590 --> 00:21:35,360
okay i understand your vision is

627
00:21:39,350 --> 00:21:37,600
remotely going someplace else that's why

628
00:21:41,669 --> 00:21:39,360
remote viewing so you are

629
00:21:43,430 --> 00:21:41,679
viewing remotely so it's like you can

630
00:21:44,070 --> 00:21:43,440
your eyeballs are someplace else or you

631
00:21:45,430 --> 00:21:44,080
have a camera

632
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:45,440
someplace else versus some

633
00:21:50,789 --> 00:21:48,400
representation of your body or your soul

634
00:21:51,430 --> 00:21:50,799
right so okay and neither one of those

635
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,440
are true

636
00:21:55,270 --> 00:21:53,280
of course you're not moving you're

637
00:21:57,350 --> 00:21:55,280
you're not moving your vision someplace

638
00:21:59,110 --> 00:21:57,360
and you're you don't have some essence

639
00:22:00,390 --> 00:21:59,120
of your body going anywhere all of those

640
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:00,400
are just beliefs

641
00:22:04,149 --> 00:22:02,080
none of that works that way but these

642
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,159
are things that people believed and at

643
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:06,159
that time early on i didn't understand

644
00:22:09,270 --> 00:22:07,520
the nature of reality

645
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:09,280
well that was my mission to try to

646
00:22:12,390 --> 00:22:10,559
understand it

647
00:22:13,669 --> 00:22:12,400
so we had these models you know out of

648
00:22:16,310 --> 00:22:13,679
body and remote viewing

649
00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:16,320
and things but it turns out that all of

650
00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:17,600
that was kind of

651
00:22:21,669 --> 00:22:19,280
based in belief anyway that's not the

652
00:22:23,190 --> 00:22:21,679
structure of how it really works

653
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:23,200
so we would do these things that were

654
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,640
evidential and by the evidential things

655
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:28,720
you know it was probably one in ten

656
00:22:34,390 --> 00:22:30,880
thousand or one in a hundred thousand

657
00:22:36,230 --> 00:22:34,400
that that we were just lucky at guessing

658
00:22:37,190 --> 00:22:36,240
numbers written on boards or that we

659
00:22:39,590 --> 00:22:37,200
were just

660
00:22:41,909 --> 00:22:39,600
you know uh somehow lucky that people

661
00:22:43,909 --> 00:22:41,919
who had been ill for 30 years got better

662
00:22:46,549 --> 00:22:43,919
you know these kinds of things you know

663
00:22:48,549 --> 00:22:46,559
you do statistical significant studies

664
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:48,559
and the statistical significance has to

665
00:22:51,750 --> 00:22:51,200
tell you basically how far away are you

666
00:22:56,310 --> 00:22:51,760
from

667
00:22:58,149 --> 00:22:56,320
random or

668
00:22:59,669 --> 00:22:58,159
how how much distance is it away from

669
00:23:03,029 --> 00:22:59,679
random and we were

670
00:23:05,669 --> 00:23:03,039
very distant from random so we knew

671
00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:05,679
intellectually that we actually were

672
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:06,480
doing something

673
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,000
we were able to interact with this

674
00:23:13,270 --> 00:23:10,080
reality through line space

675
00:23:15,750 --> 00:23:13,280
through mental space and that was a

676
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:15,760
gee whiz how does it work why does it

677
00:23:18,630 --> 00:23:16,480
work

678
00:23:20,630 --> 00:23:18,640
what can you do with it why does it

679
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:20,640
sometimes work and sometimes not work

680
00:23:26,789 --> 00:23:23,679
so well you know why is it not as as

681
00:23:28,390 --> 00:23:26,799
repeatable as we'd like it to be

682
00:23:30,149 --> 00:23:28,400
what does it have to do with mental

683
00:23:31,750 --> 00:23:30,159
state if you're in different kind of

684
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:31,760
mental states it works

685
00:23:35,350 --> 00:23:33,440
better in this one and not so well in

686
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:35,360
that one and what's the difference

687
00:23:39,510 --> 00:23:38,480
so the whole point was for me to

688
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:39,520
understand it

689
00:23:45,669 --> 00:23:42,960
and give some kind of fundamental model

690
00:23:46,549 --> 00:23:45,679
of what was going on how it was going on

691
00:23:49,990 --> 00:23:46,559
produce

692
00:23:53,590 --> 00:23:50,000
a theory that allowed

693
00:23:57,350 --> 00:23:53,600
me to predict results

694
00:23:59,590 --> 00:23:57,360
and methods and explain things like why

695
00:24:01,510 --> 00:23:59,600
this worked and why that didn't work

696
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:01,520
and so on to understand it so i worked

697
00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:03,200
on that i was the physicist then that

698
00:24:07,830 --> 00:24:04,480
was my job

699
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:07,840
and that took me about 35 years before

700
00:24:12,870 --> 00:24:10,000
i thought i understood it well enough

701
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:12,880
because i had to do a lot of research

702
00:24:16,950 --> 00:24:14,880
you know if you if you do remote viewing

703
00:24:18,390 --> 00:24:16,960
and you do it from this mental state and

704
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,400
it doesn't work

705
00:24:22,470 --> 00:24:21,039
then is that just circumstance or is

706
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:22,480
there really something about that mental

707
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,120
state

708
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:25,440
or 35 years meaning you were 35 years

709
00:24:27,990 --> 00:24:27,279
old or 35 years from the point that you

710
00:24:33,350 --> 00:24:28,000
started

711
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,360
took me that long because

712
00:24:37,510 --> 00:24:35,760
science is tedious you have to change

713
00:24:39,029 --> 00:24:37,520
variables and see what happens and then

714
00:24:40,630 --> 00:24:39,039
change the variable a little more and

715
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:40,640
see what happens and then

716
00:24:43,669 --> 00:24:42,480
change a different variable and see what

717
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:43,679
happens so

718
00:24:47,350 --> 00:24:46,080
trying to have a scientific approach to

719
00:24:50,549 --> 00:24:47,360
this

720
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:50,559
took about 35 years of me

721
00:24:55,269 --> 00:24:53,440
doing experiments doing trial and error

722
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:55,279
studies basically to find out

723
00:24:58,390 --> 00:24:57,600
what were the variables that affected

724
00:25:01,750 --> 00:24:58,400
what

725
00:25:03,269 --> 00:25:01,760
and why did they do that and if i just

726
00:25:04,710 --> 00:25:03,279
had two or three variables

727
00:25:06,630 --> 00:25:04,720
then it would have been a year or two

728
00:25:08,149 --> 00:25:06,640
but when you have

729
00:25:09,750 --> 00:25:08,159
the number of variables goes up the

730
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,760
number of complication

731
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:11,600
you know the number of possibilities

732
00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:13,360
goes up dramatically

733
00:25:17,830 --> 00:25:16,159
so it took a long time to just be some

734
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:17,840
examples of these variables

735
00:25:21,269 --> 00:25:20,240
like you said mental state well mental

736
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,279
state would be one

737
00:25:25,110 --> 00:25:23,279
there's lots of various mental states

738
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:25,120
you can get into

739
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:27,200
some are more effective than others but

740
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:32,310
let's say we're doing something like

741
00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:34,000
remote viewing okay if we're going to

742
00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:35,760
remote view and we're going to review

743
00:25:39,029 --> 00:25:36,640
targets

744
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:39,039
then there one is the is the mental

745
00:25:42,630 --> 00:25:40,080
space that you're in

746
00:25:43,590 --> 00:25:42,640
the attitude the feeling you know these

747
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:43,600
are all

748
00:25:51,430 --> 00:25:48,159
qualitative um

749
00:25:52,149 --> 00:25:51,440
subjective things so you have a mental

750
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,159
state of

751
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:54,000
where you're going or your mental state

752
00:25:57,750 --> 00:25:55,919
my mental state where i am what's my

753
00:25:59,510 --> 00:25:57,760
mental state and how do i get there

754
00:26:01,590 --> 00:25:59,520
and it finds out that mental state and

755
00:26:05,269 --> 00:26:01,600
attitude and beliefs

756
00:26:09,590 --> 00:26:05,279
fears all that stuff are part of the

757
00:26:13,269 --> 00:26:11,830
it then you have to look at the various

758
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:13,279
variables how do you

759
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:15,840
approach it what tools do you use do you

760
00:26:19,750 --> 00:26:18,080
have the idea that you are uh

761
00:26:21,269 --> 00:26:19,760
like you say there's a camera someplace

762
00:26:22,870 --> 00:26:21,279
is that your metaphor

763
00:26:25,029 --> 00:26:22,880
for what's going on because we just have

764
00:26:26,950 --> 00:26:25,039
to make up metaphors for things because

765
00:26:28,870 --> 00:26:26,960
we don't really understand how they work

766
00:26:29,909 --> 00:26:28,880
so you make up a metaphor okay there's a

767
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,919
camera over there

768
00:26:34,390 --> 00:26:32,240
and i'm gonna see what the camera sees

769
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:34,400
and now i can scan the camera you know i

770
00:26:38,950 --> 00:26:35,039
get to

771
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,960
ball joint you know so you

772
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:41,039
we have these metaphors and you can work

773
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:42,640
through metaphors until the metaphor

774
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:43,279
doesn't break

775
00:26:49,269 --> 00:26:46,320
breaks doesn't work anymore well

776
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:49,279
it's not really a camera because these

777
00:26:52,390 --> 00:26:50,080
things you know

778
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:52,400
the camera wouldn't wouldn't see but i

779
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:53,679
see those things

780
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:57,200
so it's just a matter of testing

781
00:27:00,870 --> 00:27:00,320
trying to if you do it enough you start

782
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:00,880
seeing

783
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:04,880
work and things that don't

784
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:08,320
you start seeing similarities between

785
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,039
approaches

786
00:27:12,149 --> 00:27:11,039
between healing and remote viewing and

787
00:27:14,310 --> 00:27:12,159
other things

788
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:14,320
so i just we stuck with the paranormal

789
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:16,159
things because those are the evidential

790
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:16,799
things

791
00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:19,360
and without evidence well you're just

792
00:27:22,310 --> 00:27:20,000
out there

793
00:27:23,510 --> 00:27:22,320
stuff happens and you could be making

794
00:27:25,110 --> 00:27:23,520
all that up you know you could be

795
00:27:28,149 --> 00:27:25,120
dreaming it you need the

796
00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:28,159
you need the evidence to to verify it

797
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,000
so those are the kinds of things just

798
00:27:34,710 --> 00:27:32,240
working with it looking for patterns

799
00:27:35,350 --> 00:27:34,720
looking for structure looking for things

800
00:27:38,230 --> 00:27:35,360
that

801
00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:38,240
seem to always work and trying to figure

802
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:39,760
out why they worked

803
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,360
so i sat down in in the late 1990s

804
00:27:46,789 --> 00:27:45,200
probably middle to late 1990s and

805
00:27:48,549 --> 00:27:46,799
started to write this thing

806
00:27:50,549 --> 00:27:48,559
and the reason i started writing it up

807
00:27:52,149 --> 00:27:50,559
is because somebody asked me about it

808
00:27:53,909 --> 00:27:52,159
somebody said hey tom you know how does

809
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,919
how does reality work

810
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,919
and i said well i think i could tell you

811
00:27:58,389 --> 00:27:57,600
that and i found out that there are lots

812
00:28:00,549 --> 00:27:58,399
of holes in it

813
00:28:02,870 --> 00:28:00,559
a lot of my thoughts were just fuzzy you

814
00:28:06,710 --> 00:28:02,880
know they weren't really

815
00:28:08,470 --> 00:28:06,720
very sharp they were very fuzzy so

816
00:28:10,070 --> 00:28:08,480
i thought i need to put this down on

817
00:28:12,950 --> 00:28:10,080
paper because writing

818
00:28:15,190 --> 00:28:12,960
forces clarity it's you know a fuzzy

819
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:15,200
sentence is obvious a fuzzy thought we

820
00:28:17,669 --> 00:28:16,080
just kind of slide

821
00:28:19,669 --> 00:28:17,679
over it and because we think we know

822
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:19,679
what it means we never notice how fuzzy

823
00:28:22,470 --> 00:28:20,559
it is

824
00:28:25,029 --> 00:28:22,480
so i wrote it down and the writing

825
00:28:27,510 --> 00:28:25,039
process took about five years

826
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:27,520
and during that time i learned a lot

827
00:28:30,549 --> 00:28:28,399
because i

828
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:30,559
found a lot of the fuzzy places a lot of

829
00:28:34,230 --> 00:28:31,600
the holes

830
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:34,240
and i started working on filling them up

831
00:28:38,950 --> 00:28:34,799
you know

832
00:28:41,029 --> 00:28:38,960
really

833
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:41,039
to fill up those holes better ideas

834
00:28:46,070 --> 00:28:44,320
better models better metaphors

835
00:28:47,750 --> 00:28:46,080
and how many hours per day would you

836
00:28:51,269 --> 00:28:47,760
work approximately on the big toe

837
00:28:53,830 --> 00:28:51,279
on that big toe probably

838
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:53,840
almost a day's worth probably anywhere

839
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,640
from you know

840
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:57,200
four on a light day to maybe eight or

841
00:29:00,630 --> 00:28:58,000
nine

842
00:29:01,990 --> 00:29:00,640
on a heavy day and you're still on the

843
00:29:03,510 --> 00:29:02,000
side doing experiments

844
00:29:05,669 --> 00:29:03,520
or you had abandoned that you took a

845
00:29:07,669 --> 00:29:05,679
break just to write out this no no i was

846
00:29:09,269 --> 00:29:07,679
still doing experiments i had i actually

847
00:29:11,029 --> 00:29:09,279
got my experiment and actually

848
00:29:13,430 --> 00:29:11,039
took on more life because now he's

849
00:29:15,510 --> 00:29:13,440
experimenting for very specific

850
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:15,520
issues not just understanding the big

851
00:29:19,029 --> 00:29:16,640
thing but

852
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:19,039
you know what's okay here's a problem

853
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:20,320
there's a logical issue

854
00:29:24,950 --> 00:29:23,360
you know you get from a to b and i can't

855
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,960
express that logically it's like oh a

856
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:26,960
miracle happened so i'm in a then i'm in

857
00:29:28,710 --> 00:29:27,200
b

858
00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:28,720
well a miracle happens isn't

859
00:29:32,950 --> 00:29:30,320
satisfactory to science

860
00:29:34,389 --> 00:29:32,960
i had to figure out what was the logic

861
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:34,399
that took me between these

862
00:29:40,549 --> 00:29:38,399
these steps so in any case

863
00:29:42,310 --> 00:29:40,559
i write the book and i learn a lot

864
00:29:44,070 --> 00:29:42,320
because i have to do a lot of research

865
00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:44,080
as i go and a lot of thinking and trying

866
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,440
to find model

867
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:48,480
and what i ended up doing was i had

868
00:29:53,510 --> 00:29:49,279
these

869
00:29:56,789 --> 00:29:53,520
facts of consciousness that i had come

870
00:29:58,630 --> 00:29:56,799
to think as of facts my research

871
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:58,640
this is the way it is like one such fact

872
00:30:01,669 --> 00:30:00,480
would be that consciousness is

873
00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:01,679
fundamental

874
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:04,080
and the physical world is not the

875
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:06,799
physical world is a subset

876
00:30:10,389 --> 00:30:08,399
okay and the reason i came to that

877
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:10,399
conclusion is that i could

878
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,360
with my mind modify things in the

879
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:15,760
physical reality

880
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:17,919
but i could not do it the other way

881
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,880
around

882
00:30:21,830 --> 00:30:20,480
the physical reality did not

883
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:21,840
fundamentally change anything in

884
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,960
consciousness but things in

885
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:24,880
consciousness could fundamentally change

886
00:30:30,149 --> 00:30:26,799
things in the physical world

887
00:30:32,389 --> 00:30:30,159
therefore the flow of causality flowed

888
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,399
from consciousness to the physical

889
00:30:35,430 --> 00:30:34,080
which meant consciousness was the

890
00:30:38,149 --> 00:30:35,440
superset

891
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,159
physical reality was a subset so i

892
00:30:43,830 --> 00:30:40,320
understood that the consciousness

893
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:43,840
was a fundamental thing the fundamental

894
00:30:46,789 --> 00:30:44,559
thing

895
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:46,799
and that the physical world was somehow

896
00:30:50,950 --> 00:30:48,399
a subset of that

897
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,960
but the exact somehow wasn't clear yet

898
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:51,840
so i kept

899
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:55,039
working on that so i had all of these

900
00:30:58,630 --> 00:30:58,159
facts of consciousness things that i had

901
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:58,640
done

902
00:31:01,990 --> 00:31:01,120
enough and experimented with enough that

903
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:02,000
i knew were

904
00:31:05,830 --> 00:31:04,480
real things and of course i had a lot of

905
00:31:07,909 --> 00:31:05,840
facts of the physical because i'm a

906
00:31:09,750 --> 00:31:07,919
physicist and that's what we study

907
00:31:11,190 --> 00:31:09,760
the facts of the physical world how the

908
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:11,200
physical world works

909
00:31:14,230 --> 00:31:13,760
so i started looking for a model one

910
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:14,240
model

911
00:31:21,029 --> 00:31:17,600
one elegant not complicated

912
00:31:25,190 --> 00:31:21,039
understanding that would explain

913
00:31:27,830 --> 00:31:25,200
all facts both sides and

914
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:27,840
eventually i came up with that and that

915
00:31:32,950 --> 00:31:28,880
is what i call

916
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:32,960
a big toe and it's a big toe because

917
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:36,000
it not only unifies quantum mechanics

918
00:31:43,430 --> 00:31:39,440
and relativity like a little toe should

919
00:31:45,909 --> 00:31:43,440
but it also explains experience

920
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:45,919
the subjective world so in other words

921
00:31:48,310 --> 00:31:47,600
you you should be able to take this

922
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:48,320
model

923
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:51,919
and take your subjective experiences

924
00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:54,880
and explain them why you end up with

925
00:31:57,750 --> 00:31:56,320
that experience what does that

926
00:31:59,830 --> 00:31:57,760
experience

927
00:32:01,909 --> 00:31:59,840
mean you know it's significance how is

928
00:32:04,070 --> 00:32:01,919
it related to other experiences

929
00:32:06,310 --> 00:32:04,080
so it explains the subjective world as

930
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:06,320
well as the objective world

931
00:32:10,549 --> 00:32:08,080
yes i can take that theory of

932
00:32:13,590 --> 00:32:10,559
consciousness which actually my book

933
00:32:15,110 --> 00:32:13,600
my big toe trilogy was really more a

934
00:32:17,750 --> 00:32:15,120
theory of consciousness than anything

935
00:32:20,470 --> 00:32:17,760
else though i knew it was the superset

936
00:32:20,870 --> 00:32:20,480
and about two years after i published

937
00:32:24,630 --> 00:32:20,880
that

938
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,640
in 2003

939
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:26,960
i got the aha moment where i could

940
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:29,360
derive physics i could derive relativity

941
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:30,480
in quantum mechanics

942
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:32,960
from those same ideas i could explain

943
00:32:37,269 --> 00:32:33,679
them

944
00:32:39,029 --> 00:32:37,279
and when i did that you know

945
00:32:41,110 --> 00:32:39,039
quantum mechanics stopped being weird

946
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:41,120
science and just became logical science

947
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,440
like

948
00:32:45,990 --> 00:32:44,240
any other science it isn't weird it's it

949
00:32:48,389 --> 00:32:46,000
not only turns out to be

950
00:32:49,990 --> 00:32:48,399
logical but it turns out to be necessary

951
00:32:52,630 --> 00:32:50,000
it couldn't be any other way

952
00:32:54,310 --> 00:32:52,640
the only you know the only way that's

953
00:32:57,110 --> 00:32:54,320
going to work is if you describe

954
00:32:58,310 --> 00:32:57,120
particles as probability distributions

955
00:33:00,149 --> 00:32:58,320
that's how you

956
00:33:01,909 --> 00:33:00,159
you see a pro you know see a particle as

957
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:01,919
a probability distribution it has to be

958
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:02,960
that way

959
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:05,039
there's no other way that it could work

960
00:33:10,070 --> 00:33:06,720
and the

961
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:10,080
relativity is fundamentally driven from

962
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:10,720
the

963
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:14,240
constant

964
00:33:21,110 --> 00:33:18,000
is the it's kind of the

965
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:21,120
the what the mystery

966
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:25,039
the big mystery in uh relativity theory

967
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:28,640
if you have that information then

968
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,840
relativity becomes kind of

969
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:34,080
known i mean the rest of it's just math

970
00:33:37,990 --> 00:33:35,760
but that's the that's kind of the thing

971
00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:38,000
that isn't understood in relativity and

972
00:33:41,990 --> 00:33:39,760
that came out to be just perfectly

973
00:33:45,669 --> 00:33:42,000
obvious too it couldn't be any other way

974
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:45,679
so i started looking then at the

975
00:33:50,310 --> 00:33:49,120
various paradoxes in physics things that

976
00:33:54,070 --> 00:33:50,320
just don't make sense

977
00:33:55,669 --> 00:33:54,080
like um oh there's a lot of paradoxes in

978
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:55,679
physics tons of them

979
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:58,559
all the fundamental things in physics

980
00:34:03,190 --> 00:33:59,600
have no

981
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:03,200
source basically as physics

982
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:05,679
understands it now like time where does

983
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:06,880
time come from

984
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:09,119
space where did space come from where

985
00:34:12,149 --> 00:34:10,879
does mass come from where does charge

986
00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:12,159
come from

987
00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:17,440
of these all the fundamentals of physics

988
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:19,200
if you ask a physicist well you know

989
00:34:22,869 --> 00:34:20,639
where's that come from they'll say well

990
00:34:25,430 --> 00:34:22,879
we don't know it just is

991
00:34:26,389 --> 00:34:25,440
so there isn't any good theory that

992
00:34:28,069 --> 00:34:26,399
explains

993
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:28,079
where all these things come from where

994
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:29,919
did that ball of plasma and big bang

995
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:31,280
theory come from

996
00:34:36,310 --> 00:34:34,240
because our universe didn't exist yet it

997
00:34:36,790 --> 00:34:36,320
had to predate our universe well what do

998
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:36,800
you mean

999
00:34:40,149 --> 00:34:39,119
something that ball of plasma predated

1000
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,159
our universe

1001
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:42,480
if everything that's real is defined as

1002
00:34:45,829 --> 00:34:44,079
our universe then that's a problem

1003
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:45,839
that's a paradox

1004
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,760
so there's lots of these paradoxes there

1005
00:34:52,710 --> 00:34:50,079
was the xeno effect which is how you can

1006
00:34:54,550 --> 00:34:52,720
if if you have a atom that goes from

1007
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:54,560
state a to state b or a system

1008
00:34:58,470 --> 00:34:56,879
on a continuous yeah so if you keep

1009
00:34:59,349 --> 00:34:58,480
measuring it and measuring it never gets

1010
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:59,359
out of a

1011
00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:01,200
even though normally it would go from a

1012
00:35:04,390 --> 00:35:02,480
to b say in a minute

1013
00:35:05,829 --> 00:35:04,400
you can measure it for all day and if

1014
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:05,839
you keep measuring it

1015
00:35:11,510 --> 00:35:08,560
close enough then it'll never go to b so

1016
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:11,520
those kinds of paradoxes all had a very

1017
00:35:17,270 --> 00:35:15,119
straightforward solution i even looked

1018
00:35:19,750 --> 00:35:17,280
at

1019
00:35:21,910 --> 00:35:19,760
chaos theory and could come up with a

1020
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,920
fundamental reason why chaos theory

1021
00:35:24,950 --> 00:35:22,800
works the way it

1022
00:35:25,829 --> 00:35:24,960
works why you have these areas of

1023
00:35:28,630 --> 00:35:25,839
chaotic

1024
00:35:30,630 --> 00:35:28,640
motion let's say in a in a liquid flow

1025
00:35:33,270 --> 00:35:30,640
you know high velocity liquid flow and

1026
00:35:34,870 --> 00:35:33,280
then those areas will kind of get calm

1027
00:35:36,710 --> 00:35:34,880
and then the calmness will float around

1028
00:35:37,750 --> 00:35:36,720
in different areas and other areas will

1029
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:37,760
erupt into

1030
00:35:43,190 --> 00:35:41,119
into uh you know higher

1031
00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:43,200
higher velocity more chaotic things you

1032
00:35:48,790 --> 00:35:45,680
know so weather patterns and

1033
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,800
and water flow and other chaotic kind of

1034
00:35:51,910 --> 00:35:49,680
events

1035
00:35:53,750 --> 00:35:51,920
and that's not known why does it work

1036
00:35:55,750 --> 00:35:53,760
that and now we know the math

1037
00:35:57,510 --> 00:35:55,760
okay you know you have two differential

1038
00:35:59,589 --> 00:35:57,520
equations

1039
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:59,599
will uh you know produce that kind of a

1040
00:36:03,510 --> 00:36:01,200
thing but

1041
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:03,520
why does the world work that way you

1042
00:36:08,710 --> 00:36:05,839
know math doesn't cause reality

1043
00:36:10,470 --> 00:36:08,720
math just models reality you know you

1044
00:36:14,550 --> 00:36:10,480
have to

1045
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:14,560
cause of things it's just

1046
00:36:17,750 --> 00:36:17,359
a way of modeling it so in any way so

1047
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:17,760
this

1048
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:20,800
it turned out that it did drive

1049
00:36:24,870 --> 00:36:23,440
physics reasonably enough and right now

1050
00:36:27,270 --> 00:36:24,880
i have

1051
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:27,280
a set of quantum mechanics experiments

1052
00:36:33,430 --> 00:36:28,320
that i am

1053
00:36:35,670 --> 00:36:33,440
having done in southern california

1054
00:36:37,349 --> 00:36:35,680
they call it cal poly california

1055
00:36:39,910 --> 00:36:37,359
polytechnical institute

1056
00:36:40,950 --> 00:36:39,920
i have a scientist there who is who's

1057
00:36:42,870 --> 00:36:40,960
doing these for me

1058
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:42,880
it's taking a long time it's slow but

1059
00:36:45,430 --> 00:36:44,960
it's one guy working part time so it

1060
00:36:48,069 --> 00:36:45,440
just

1061
00:36:48,630 --> 00:36:48,079
takes a long time and these experiments

1062
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:48,640
will

1063
00:36:55,270 --> 00:36:51,839
produce more evidence that

1064
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:55,280
reality is not material but is

1065
00:36:59,349 --> 00:36:58,800
is uh information based which is what a

1066
00:37:01,589 --> 00:36:59,359
lot of

1067
00:37:03,670 --> 00:37:01,599
physicists say these days our reality is

1068
00:37:06,950 --> 00:37:03,680
information based

1069
00:37:11,430 --> 00:37:06,960
and it also shows that

1070
00:37:14,470 --> 00:37:11,440
it's it provides evidence that

1071
00:37:16,390 --> 00:37:14,480
consciousness is the computer

1072
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:16,400
it's information based that means it can

1073
00:37:22,150 --> 00:37:17,760
be calculated

1074
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:22,160
know where is it calculated what's

1075
00:37:26,790 --> 00:37:23,680
calculating it

1076
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:26,800
and the answer to that is consciousness

1077
00:37:31,109 --> 00:37:29,680
is the computer so now all of this

1078
00:37:33,349 --> 00:37:31,119
sounds very abstract

1079
00:37:34,310 --> 00:37:33,359
but there is logic that ties it all

1080
00:37:36,870 --> 00:37:34,320
together

1081
00:37:39,670 --> 00:37:36,880
so just you know for your listeners who

1082
00:37:41,589 --> 00:37:39,680
i i assume you tend to be a science guy

1083
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:41,599
so you're you're listeners who are going

1084
00:37:46,390 --> 00:37:43,119
to be very objective and

1085
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:46,400
science guys probably um i'm trying to

1086
00:37:50,230 --> 00:37:47,040
give them

1087
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:50,240
an overview so it was from this

1088
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:53,119
this perspective of consciousness that i

1089
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,760
ended up

1090
00:37:57,430 --> 00:37:56,640
driving deriving physics and it's a very

1091
00:38:00,470 --> 00:37:57,440
simple

1092
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,480
elegant model it's only got two

1093
00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:02,880
basic assumptions and they're not

1094
00:38:06,950 --> 00:38:04,720
remarkable at all one of them is that

1095
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:06,960
consciousness exists

1096
00:38:11,349 --> 00:38:10,160
the other one is that uh evolution

1097
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:11,359
exists

1098
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:12,880
evolution being that if you have a

1099
00:38:16,630 --> 00:38:14,560
system that's self-changing and if it

1100
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:16,640
has some

1101
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:20,480
pressures or some uh what can we say uh

1102
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:22,240
you know things that it has to do like

1103
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:23,760
in our physical world that would be

1104
00:38:26,630 --> 00:38:25,119
procreation and survival

1105
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:26,640
those are the things you need to do

1106
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:28,720
those are the pressures that you have

1107
00:38:34,150 --> 00:38:31,599
uh so if you have a system with with

1108
00:38:37,109 --> 00:38:34,160
pressures in a certain way it will

1109
00:38:38,150 --> 00:38:37,119
change itself in order to you know

1110
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:38,160
procreate

1111
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:41,280
or survive in our physical case or to do

1112
00:38:43,750 --> 00:38:41,839
whatever

1113
00:38:46,069 --> 00:38:43,760
its particular environmental pressures

1114
00:38:49,030 --> 00:38:46,079
are internal and external environment

1115
00:38:50,710 --> 00:38:49,040
so it will tend to satisfy those those

1116
00:38:53,910 --> 00:38:50,720
things

1117
00:38:57,109 --> 00:38:53,920
so that's all from that i can

1118
00:38:59,750 --> 00:38:57,119
pretty much deductively

1119
00:39:00,310 --> 00:38:59,760
create this whole theory from beginning

1120
00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:00,320
to end

1121
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:02,800
there are no other grand assumptions

1122
00:39:05,910 --> 00:39:04,160
nothing weird no

1123
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,920
no no place where and then a miracle

1124
00:39:10,150 --> 00:39:07,440
happens and you've got

1125
00:39:10,790 --> 00:39:10,160
you know something else going on so

1126
00:39:14,470 --> 00:39:10,800
that's the

1127
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:14,480
logical it's

1128
00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:18,480
science in the same way that

1129
00:39:24,150 --> 00:39:22,400
say evolution

1130
00:39:25,589 --> 00:39:24,160
you know evolution theory about our

1131
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:25,599
planet you know you give a

1132
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:29,040
evolutionist a and he will

1133
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,880
explain to you how that cell evolved

1134
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:32,480
into all the things we have on the

1135
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:34,000
planet

1136
00:39:37,270 --> 00:39:36,320
you know given talking about life you

1137
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:37,280
know biologically right

1138
00:39:40,790 --> 00:39:39,280
we're talking about evolution of life

1139
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:40,800
not the evolution of rocks but the

1140
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,000
evolution of the living things

1141
00:39:46,310 --> 00:39:44,240
on the planet you give him a living cell

1142
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:46,320
and he will tell you how that cell was

1143
00:39:49,910 --> 00:39:48,000
just a single-celled thing and then it

1144
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:49,920
got to be a multiple cell thing and he

1145
00:39:52,950 --> 00:39:51,119
will go on and how it

1146
00:39:54,550 --> 00:39:52,960
diverged and how the environment you

1147
00:39:56,790 --> 00:39:54,560
know allowed these

1148
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:56,800
these mutations and on and on and on and

1149
00:40:01,750 --> 00:39:58,880
he'll end up with our world

1150
00:40:02,230 --> 00:40:01,760
based on the assumption that the living

1151
00:40:04,550 --> 00:40:02,240
cells

1152
00:40:05,670 --> 00:40:04,560
existed to begin with because the

1153
00:40:07,270 --> 00:40:05,680
biologist is

1154
00:40:08,710 --> 00:40:07,280
a little hard-pressed to say exactly

1155
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,720
where those you know

1156
00:40:12,790 --> 00:40:10,800
where that cell came from although he's

1157
00:40:14,550 --> 00:40:12,800
got a hand-waving argument that says oh

1158
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,560
well you had the right proteins and the

1159
00:40:18,230 --> 00:40:16,560
right amino acids just happened to

1160
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,240
come together in a little maybe

1161
00:40:20,950 --> 00:40:20,160
electrical shock from some lightning or

1162
00:40:23,589 --> 00:40:20,960
something and

1163
00:40:25,430 --> 00:40:23,599
voila you got a living cell but that's a

1164
00:40:27,670 --> 00:40:25,440
hand-waving conjecture argument that's

1165
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:27,680
not really solid logical argument it's

1166
00:40:30,309 --> 00:40:28,640
like uh

1167
00:40:31,750 --> 00:40:30,319
you know so i do the same thing i can

1168
00:40:32,550 --> 00:40:31,760
start with where did consciousness come

1169
00:40:34,390 --> 00:40:32,560
from

1170
00:40:36,069 --> 00:40:34,400
and i have to start with well

1171
00:40:39,589 --> 00:40:36,079
consciousness started at a

1172
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:39,599
at its simplest level its simplest level

1173
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:42,160
is basically an awareness a simple

1174
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:44,160
awareness that is aware

1175
00:40:48,870 --> 00:40:47,280
that it can be in two different states

1176
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:48,880
it can be this way and it can be that

1177
00:40:53,589 --> 00:40:51,040
way that's a binary

1178
00:40:55,349 --> 00:40:53,599
that's all that's it that's the that's

1179
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:55,359
the one cell that the biologists have

1180
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,160
that's my

1181
00:40:59,349 --> 00:40:58,640
consciousness cell if you will and from

1182
00:41:01,750 --> 00:40:59,359
there

1183
00:41:03,430 --> 00:41:01,760
you can just see how you can follow the

1184
00:41:05,510 --> 00:41:03,440
logic of evolution

1185
00:41:07,109 --> 00:41:05,520
and you can build up the nature of

1186
00:41:09,030 --> 00:41:07,119
consciousness consciousness is an

1187
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:09,040
information system

1188
00:41:13,109 --> 00:41:12,160
consciousness is you know awareness is

1189
00:41:16,150 --> 00:41:13,119
awareness of what

1190
00:41:17,430 --> 00:41:16,160
you're aware of something and as

1191
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:17,440
something you're aware of

1192
00:41:23,030 --> 00:41:20,640
is can be can be you know seen as

1193
00:41:24,630 --> 00:41:23,040
information is what you're aware of what

1194
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,640
about us that's what we're aware of we

1195
00:41:28,870 --> 00:41:25,920
have five senses

1196
00:41:31,270 --> 00:41:28,880
and our reality is the data we collect

1197
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,280
from those five senses it's information

1198
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:34,000
so consciousness that is an information

1199
00:41:40,550 --> 00:41:34,880
system

1200
00:41:42,309 --> 00:41:40,560
let's start with a with an information

1201
00:41:43,910 --> 00:41:42,319
well we'll call it information system

1202
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:43,920
but let's say all of its bits

1203
00:41:48,550 --> 00:41:46,880
are random if all of its bits are random

1204
00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,560
there is no information

1205
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,880
that's the highest entropy condition

1206
00:41:55,030 --> 00:41:52,079
that it can be in

1207
00:41:56,069 --> 00:41:55,040
is all of its bits are random no

1208
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:56,079
information

1209
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,560
if it orders some of those bits and

1210
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:00,240
particularly if it gives that order

1211
00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:03,839
some meaning then you have information

1212
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:07,200
is created so information systems evolve

1213
00:42:10,710 --> 00:42:07,680
by

1214
00:42:11,349 --> 00:42:10,720
lowering entropy that's just the nature

1215
00:42:13,030 --> 00:42:11,359
of

1216
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:13,040
okay we're going to get to the specifics

1217
00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:14,720
the technicalities so you don't know

1218
00:42:17,349 --> 00:42:16,160
this but

1219
00:42:19,430 --> 00:42:17,359
most of the time when i interview

1220
00:42:21,990 --> 00:42:19,440
someone i spend about two weeks prepping

1221
00:42:22,790 --> 00:42:22,000
and for you i spent maybe two months so

1222
00:42:30,069 --> 00:42:22,800
i have

1223
00:42:33,670 --> 00:42:30,079
maybe six five and a half

1224
00:42:36,790 --> 00:42:33,680
pages of questions okay

1225
00:42:38,710 --> 00:42:36,800
all right well that's fine so okay okay

1226
00:42:40,630 --> 00:42:38,720
my first question yeah i'm assuming your

1227
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,640
listeners just don't really

1228
00:42:44,230 --> 00:42:42,400
have any idea who i am and what i'm

1229
00:42:44,550 --> 00:42:44,240
doing right right i'm trying to yeah

1230
00:42:46,550 --> 00:42:44,560
that's

1231
00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:46,560
totally fine a little background but

1232
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:48,160
okay go ahead with your questions

1233
00:42:53,030 --> 00:42:50,960
well one is that you mentioned that you

1234
00:42:55,270 --> 00:42:53,040
unify relativity and quantum mechanics

1235
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:55,280
and i i didn't see well i see what

1236
00:42:57,349 --> 00:42:56,720
you're saying is that okay there can be

1237
00:43:09,910 --> 00:42:57,359
a

1238
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:09,920
know if

1239
00:43:15,030 --> 00:43:12,400
you can yeah okay so there's a couple

1240
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:15,040
problems in in qft so

1241
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:17,119
general relativity is non-renormalizable

1242
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,079
and i'm curious

1243
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,880
if there's a way in your theory to

1244
00:43:26,550 --> 00:43:23,040
overcome that

1245
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:26,560
well you know the way i see general

1246
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:29,200
relativity is basically you start with

1247
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:30,720
special relativity which is a very

1248
00:43:34,470 --> 00:43:31,359
simple

1249
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:34,480
little you know algebra thing and

1250
00:43:42,069 --> 00:43:38,160
then you know we had a model of gravity

1251
00:43:44,470 --> 00:43:42,079
at that point and that was you know

1252
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:44,480
that the force of gravity is is some

1253
00:43:47,670 --> 00:43:45,359
constant g

1254
00:43:49,270 --> 00:43:47,680
you know times mass one times mass two

1255
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:49,280
over the square of the distance g m m

1256
00:43:52,309 --> 00:43:50,319
over r squared

1257
00:43:54,150 --> 00:43:52,319
okay that was our model of gravity

1258
00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:54,160
masses attract each other

1259
00:43:57,190 --> 00:43:55,599
but of course there was no real good

1260
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:57,200
reason why masses should attract each

1261
00:43:59,510 --> 00:43:58,079
other but

1262
00:44:01,670 --> 00:43:59,520
that'd just be one of those things it

1263
00:44:05,349 --> 00:44:01,680
just is in science so

1264
00:44:09,750 --> 00:44:05,359
that was that was gravity and

1265
00:44:11,750 --> 00:44:09,760
once we had special relativity

1266
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:11,760
distance and time kind of took on a

1267
00:44:15,109 --> 00:44:12,880
different meaning

1268
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:15,119
and the relationship between them

1269
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:16,480
started to

1270
00:44:19,910 --> 00:44:18,960
you know obviously there were

1271
00:44:23,430 --> 00:44:19,920
connections

1272
00:44:25,829 --> 00:44:23,440
between distance and time that

1273
00:44:27,270 --> 00:44:25,839
kind of confuses this issue of the

1274
00:44:30,230 --> 00:44:27,280
distance between them

1275
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:30,240
for gravity so einstein looked for a

1276
00:44:32,710 --> 00:44:30,640
more

1277
00:44:33,829 --> 00:44:32,720
general solution which is general

1278
00:44:38,309 --> 00:44:33,839
relativity

1279
00:44:38,319 --> 00:44:41,910
you know geometry

1280
00:44:45,990 --> 00:44:44,550
of space time so we had space time now

1281
00:44:49,109 --> 00:44:46,000
and space time had

1282
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:49,119
geometry it was a surface it flowed it

1283
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:49,680
had

1284
00:44:56,069 --> 00:44:53,280
peaks and dips and gravity were dips

1285
00:44:58,150 --> 00:44:56,079
in the space time so you'd get something

1286
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:58,160
that got into space time where there was

1287
00:45:00,150 --> 00:44:58,640
a dip

1288
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,160
and you'd slide down the dip to the

1289
00:45:03,670 --> 00:45:02,000
lower energy state

1290
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:03,680
because things naturally move from the

1291
00:45:08,950 --> 00:45:06,319
higher energy state to the lower energy

1292
00:45:10,710 --> 00:45:08,960
energy state so then we had a whole new

1293
00:45:13,750 --> 00:45:10,720
idea of gravity

1294
00:45:14,390 --> 00:45:13,760
it was warps and changes in spacetime so

1295
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:14,400
where you have

1296
00:45:19,990 --> 00:45:18,000
mass you have space-time warping you

1297
00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:20,000
know so the you know the old

1298
00:45:23,270 --> 00:45:21,760
metaphor of you know the bowling ball

1299
00:45:26,470 --> 00:45:23,280
and the trampoline

1300
00:45:29,990 --> 00:45:26,480
kind of thing is is what you get so

1301
00:45:33,430 --> 00:45:30,000
he took gravity and turned it into a

1302
00:45:34,950 --> 00:45:33,440
geometric model where he took our

1303
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:34,960
you know relativity turned that into a

1304
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:37,599
geometric model and then

1305
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:39,200
people have ever since been working out

1306
00:45:43,990 --> 00:45:40,880
the logical consequences

1307
00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:44,000
of that you know of that concept in the

1308
00:45:51,589 --> 00:45:44,560
math

1309
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:51,599
his theory was basically a theory of

1310
00:45:56,390 --> 00:45:53,839
general relativity is really a theory of

1311
00:45:58,550 --> 00:45:56,400
gravity

1312
00:46:00,230 --> 00:45:58,560
in my mind that's it's that's its basic

1313
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:00,240
thing all right now

1314
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:03,760
it had some problems and the way i look

1315
00:46:09,109 --> 00:46:05,680
at it from a bigger picture

1316
00:46:12,829 --> 00:46:09,119
both of those models gmm over

1317
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:12,839
r square and the space time model of

1318
00:46:17,910 --> 00:46:14,400
relativity

1319
00:46:20,950 --> 00:46:17,920
neither model is exactly right

1320
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:20,960
neither model is without its issues

1321
00:46:26,790 --> 00:46:24,079
both models give you results

1322
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:26,800
within their own realm of doing things

1323
00:46:30,950 --> 00:46:27,440
within

1324
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,960
with with the faster you know very fast

1325
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:33,440
speeds of things okay relativistic

1326
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:34,079
speeds

1327
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:37,839
and with very tiny things then the

1328
00:46:42,230 --> 00:46:40,160
you know the uh einstein's model made

1329
00:46:46,230 --> 00:46:42,240
more sense because it

1330
00:46:48,069 --> 00:46:46,240
it worked in a larger range of reality

1331
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:48,079
but they're just different views

1332
00:46:52,390 --> 00:46:49,680
different ways of expressing

1333
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,400
the same thing different models of

1334
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:53,920
modeling the same thing

1335
00:46:57,910 --> 00:46:55,599
so it's not that one's right and one's

1336
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:57,920
wrong it's that if you look at it from

1337
00:47:01,510 --> 00:47:01,040
this viewpoint okay from the viewpoint

1338
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:01,520
where

1339
00:47:05,190 --> 00:47:03,119
things aren't that fast and not that

1340
00:47:08,309 --> 00:47:05,200
small you know from the

1341
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:08,319
our regular kind of observational world

1342
00:47:14,069 --> 00:47:11,440
well gmm over r square works pretty good

1343
00:47:14,470 --> 00:47:14,079
matter of fact we do a lot of good you

1344
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:14,480
know

1345
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:16,880
space exploration mainly based on things

1346
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:20,160
like that you know it's a good model

1347
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:23,280
so if you need to worry about the

1348
00:47:28,150 --> 00:47:25,760
high velocities and small things then

1349
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:28,160
you need something else

1350
00:47:32,150 --> 00:47:30,480
you need quantum mechanics and you need

1351
00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:32,160
and you need relativity for the high

1352
00:47:36,150 --> 00:47:33,040
speeds

1353
00:47:37,030 --> 00:47:36,160
so you know

1354
00:47:40,390 --> 00:47:37,040
both of them are going to have

1355
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:40,400
limitations i don't see that his model

1356
00:47:46,390 --> 00:47:44,549
you know i don't know i guess we could

1357
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:46,400
say it's more general

1358
00:47:54,390 --> 00:47:50,160
it's a more general model but it has

1359
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:54,400
issues but my model is not

1360
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:56,400
you know i don't worry too much about

1361
00:48:00,470 --> 00:47:57,760
the details

1362
00:48:01,589 --> 00:48:00,480
of the way the you know the logical

1363
00:48:03,750 --> 00:48:01,599
details

1364
00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:03,760
inside the theory i'm one of those

1365
00:48:06,710 --> 00:48:05,359
persnickety equation people that you

1366
00:48:08,549 --> 00:48:06,720
reference in the book

1367
00:48:11,030 --> 00:48:08,559
and that book by the way it's a huge

1368
00:48:13,589 --> 00:48:11,040
book usually i can get through a book in

1369
00:48:14,630 --> 00:48:13,599
well in a certain a quick amount of time

1370
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:14,640
but then this one

1371
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:17,200
like i told you i've been listening to

1372
00:48:21,910 --> 00:48:18,079
it primarily

1373
00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:21,920
for two months maybe more yeah well

1374
00:48:25,270 --> 00:48:24,880
it's packed it's packed with information

1375
00:48:27,190 --> 00:48:25,280
yes

1376
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:27,200
went through all your slides too and

1377
00:48:30,630 --> 00:48:28,720
this was the only slide that i

1378
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:30,640
couldn't particularly comprehend so at

1379
00:48:33,829 --> 00:48:32,240
one point we're gonna go through this

1380
00:48:37,750 --> 00:48:33,839
and i also wanted to know just as an

1381
00:48:41,190 --> 00:48:39,990
that it's it's aggravating to me to read

1382
00:48:43,349 --> 00:48:41,200
equations no longer in

1383
00:48:44,710 --> 00:48:43,359
latex because i'm so spoiled by the

1384
00:48:48,710 --> 00:48:44,720
beauty i was

1385
00:48:50,950 --> 00:48:48,720
saying i was writing this book for

1386
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,960
everyday joe i wasn't writing it for

1387
00:48:55,750 --> 00:48:52,640
scientists

1388
00:48:56,470 --> 00:48:55,760
to me one of the one of the things that

1389
00:48:57,990 --> 00:48:56,480
this book

1390
00:48:59,670 --> 00:48:58,000
these books were supposed to do is

1391
00:49:02,790 --> 00:48:59,680
provide an on-ramp

1392
00:49:04,150 --> 00:49:02,800
for left brains on exploration yeah

1393
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:04,160
on-ramp yeah a way

1394
00:49:07,270 --> 00:49:06,480
to get to an on-ramp to the bigger

1395
00:49:10,390 --> 00:49:07,280
picture

1396
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:10,400
nature of reality from

1397
00:49:13,910 --> 00:49:13,359
from the biggest picture now people with

1398
00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:13,920
that

1399
00:49:18,309 --> 00:49:16,480
live with logical process you know which

1400
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:18,319
is mostly scientists but not just

1401
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:19,280
scientists even

1402
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:21,200
you know carpenters and other people who

1403
00:49:25,990 --> 00:49:23,680
think logically to do what they do

1404
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:26,000
those kind of left brain people don't

1405
00:49:30,309 --> 00:49:28,400
have an on-ramp to the bigger picture

1406
00:49:32,069 --> 00:49:30,319
there's lots of on-ramps for

1407
00:49:33,829 --> 00:49:32,079
right-brained people who tend to get

1408
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:33,839
things intuitively

1409
00:49:38,470 --> 00:49:36,960
but logical people can't go there

1410
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:38,480
you know they they get there and they

1411
00:49:41,910 --> 00:49:40,000
say oh where's the proof

1412
00:49:43,109 --> 00:49:41,920
you know where's the where's the logic

1413
00:49:45,190 --> 00:49:43,119
it's not there and

1414
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:45,200
if the logic doesn't go then they can't

1415
00:49:48,309 --> 00:49:46,160
go either

1416
00:49:49,829 --> 00:49:48,319
so i wanted to write a book that was for

1417
00:49:52,470 --> 00:49:49,839
the every day

1418
00:49:54,309 --> 00:49:52,480
joe but something that would also

1419
00:49:56,230 --> 00:49:54,319
provide an on-ramp for the guys that

1420
00:49:58,630 --> 00:49:56,240
require logical process

1421
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:58,640
so that was what i was trying to do was

1422
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:59,839
a balance between

1423
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,440
all of those things i wasn't writing the

1424
00:50:05,829 --> 00:50:03,520
first physicist i wasn't

1425
00:50:07,750 --> 00:50:05,839
just writing it for you know technical

1426
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:07,760
people i wanted everybody

1427
00:50:14,710 --> 00:50:11,599
to be able to read it and get it

1428
00:50:15,190 --> 00:50:14,720
so that's the nature of those of those

1429
00:50:18,549 --> 00:50:15,200
books

1430
00:50:21,349 --> 00:50:18,559
but the material is dense if you

1431
00:50:21,910 --> 00:50:21,359
read it quickly you'll miss most of it

1432
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:21,920
that's

1433
00:50:26,950 --> 00:50:23,760
probably what you found out you got to

1434
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:26,960
really read it because it is a logical

1435
00:50:29,670 --> 00:50:27,680
flow like

1436
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,680
like math you know you can't just skip

1437
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:30,720
through a math book

1438
00:50:35,349 --> 00:50:32,960
you can't speed read a math book you got

1439
00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,359
to read each thing because that thing

1440
00:50:38,710 --> 00:50:37,119
kind of takes upon the last still yeah

1441
00:50:40,549 --> 00:50:38,720
builds upon the last builds upon the

1442
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,559
next and is going someplace

1443
00:50:45,190 --> 00:50:42,640
and you have to take the whole trip and

1444
00:50:48,069 --> 00:50:45,200
you have to take it slow enough that you

1445
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:48,079
you don't just intellectually get it but

1446
00:50:50,710 --> 00:50:49,760
you have to get it on a little deeper

1447
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,720
level

1448
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:52,400
if you just intellectually get it you

1449
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:54,400
can go through the book on uh-huh uh-huh

1450
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:55,040
uh-huh

1451
00:50:58,390 --> 00:50:57,119
all the way to the end and you get out

1452
00:51:00,230 --> 00:50:58,400
the other side

1453
00:51:02,390 --> 00:51:00,240
and okay you could discuss it

1454
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:02,400
intellectually but you don't really get

1455
00:51:04,950 --> 00:51:03,359
it at all

1456
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,960
you don't see the bigger picture you've

1457
00:51:09,910 --> 00:51:06,559
never made the journey you know

1458
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:09,920
so that's it is a hard book to read

1459
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:12,079
you know i i've got one one guy who

1460
00:51:15,750 --> 00:51:13,680
wrote to me he said

1461
00:51:17,670 --> 00:51:15,760
he's read the book he read the book once

1462
00:51:19,430 --> 00:51:17,680
and he read it like two or three weeks

1463
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,440
and he realized he didn't understand it

1464
00:51:23,750 --> 00:51:21,200
so now he's reading which one because

1465
00:51:25,750 --> 00:51:23,760
there's three the first one he wrote

1466
00:51:27,190 --> 00:51:25,760
all three in three weeks read all three

1467
00:51:28,710 --> 00:51:27,200
of them in three weeks he's kind of a

1468
00:51:29,510 --> 00:51:28,720
speed reader guy who reads things

1469
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:29,520
quickly

1470
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:31,040
and he got to the end of it and he says

1471
00:51:34,950 --> 00:51:32,720
he didn't have any idea what it was all

1472
00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:34,960
about so he went back and now

1473
00:51:39,109 --> 00:51:36,640
at the end on i think this is like his

1474
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:39,119
third reading he says he reads 10 pages

1475
00:51:44,069 --> 00:51:40,720
a day

1476
00:51:45,670 --> 00:51:44,079
no more and that's his

1477
00:51:47,510 --> 00:51:45,680
that's his limit he says more than 10

1478
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,520
pages i get confused

1479
00:51:50,309 --> 00:51:48,960
there's something efficacious about

1480
00:51:51,829 --> 00:51:50,319
reading a book till the end and not

1481
00:51:52,390 --> 00:51:51,839
getting the full grasp and then going

1482
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:52,400
back to it

1483
00:51:55,030 --> 00:51:53,680
it's like at least you get the table of

1484
00:51:55,910 --> 00:51:55,040
contents you know where you're going

1485
00:51:57,910 --> 00:51:55,920
yeah and then

1486
00:51:59,430 --> 00:51:57,920
you get the basic big ideas you just

1487
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:59,440
don't get the understanding so yeah

1488
00:52:02,829 --> 00:51:59,839
there's

1489
00:52:03,670 --> 00:52:02,839
as you go back as long as you go back

1490
00:52:05,990 --> 00:52:03,680
yeah okay

1491
00:52:07,750 --> 00:52:06,000
so i need help with this on-ramp because

1492
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:07,760
i'm somewhat of a fool

1493
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:10,960
and i've been i can intellectually

1494
00:52:15,349 --> 00:52:12,640
understand some of it but

1495
00:52:19,190 --> 00:52:15,359
but i'm having a i guess you would say

1496
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:19,200
i'm having a difficult time

1497
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:20,559
like like we were talking about i'm

1498
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:22,319
thinking about equations as well so

1499
00:52:25,589 --> 00:52:23,440
there's some problems

1500
00:52:26,790 --> 00:52:25,599
when someone says they have a small toe

1501
00:52:28,150 --> 00:52:26,800
forget about big right and i'm

1502
00:52:30,390 --> 00:52:28,160
interested in big totally

1503
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:30,400
100 that's what the channel is about how

1504
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,920
do you explain consciousness free will

1505
00:52:35,510 --> 00:52:33,359
god

1506
00:52:36,710 --> 00:52:35,520
if there's any well also here's the

1507
00:52:37,430 --> 00:52:36,720
interesting question what does an

1508
00:52:40,630 --> 00:52:37,440
explanation

1509
00:52:42,390 --> 00:52:40,640
mathematical equations

1510
00:52:43,910 --> 00:52:42,400
is it as simple as you start with

1511
00:52:46,069 --> 00:52:43,920
assumptions and then derive from there

1512
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:46,079
like what does an explanation mean well

1513
00:52:48,230 --> 00:52:47,520
that's a difficult question too but

1514
00:52:50,309 --> 00:52:48,240
either way

1515
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:50,319
i'm interested in the in a huge token

1516
00:52:54,470 --> 00:52:51,440
okay you just told that we

1517
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:54,480
okay to answer that one the

1518
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:57,520
mathematics does not explain it

1519
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,880
basically describes

1520
00:53:04,470 --> 00:53:02,720
things don't again mathematics doesn't

1521
00:53:07,349 --> 00:53:04,480
cause things to happen

1522
00:53:08,710 --> 00:53:07,359
well wow whoa all right tom let's play

1523
00:53:10,230 --> 00:53:08,720
with this because that depends if you're

1524
00:53:11,750 --> 00:53:10,240
a politeness some platonist would say

1525
00:53:12,069 --> 00:53:11,760
that's the real world the real world is

1526
00:53:15,829 --> 00:53:12,079
the

1527
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:15,839
this world is caused from that now

1528
00:53:19,270 --> 00:53:17,040
someone like penrose

1529
00:53:20,870 --> 00:53:19,280
also he doesn't come right out and say

1530
00:53:24,790 --> 00:53:20,880
that but he alludes to it

1531
00:53:27,910 --> 00:53:24,800
well i would be in the idealist camp but

1532
00:53:29,030 --> 00:53:27,920
this world is computed it is a virtual

1533
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:29,040
reality

1534
00:53:36,630 --> 00:53:32,160
the computer

1535
00:53:38,710 --> 00:53:36,640
okay but it doesn't mean that

1536
00:53:39,990 --> 00:53:38,720
analytical equations is how it's

1537
00:53:41,829 --> 00:53:40,000
computed

1538
00:53:43,589 --> 00:53:41,839
there's computer science too it's like

1539
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:43,599
uh you know there's a difference between

1540
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:44,400
uh

1541
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:46,480
your your guy doing you know you you

1542
00:53:49,270 --> 00:53:47,839
gave me two people that you wanted to

1543
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:49,280
talk about you know the one guy's doing

1544
00:53:52,790 --> 00:53:50,559
geometry

1545
00:53:54,069 --> 00:53:52,800
and the other guy's doing computer

1546
00:53:56,470 --> 00:53:54,079
processing

1547
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:56,480
you know he's looking at links and and

1548
00:54:00,710 --> 00:53:57,599
networks

1549
00:54:01,910 --> 00:54:00,720
you know you're looking like you don't

1550
00:54:03,589 --> 00:54:01,920
know what i'm talking about

1551
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,599
uh no what are you talking about i'm

1552
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:05,359
talking about wolfram

1553
00:54:12,710 --> 00:54:10,870
eric weinstein yeah weinstein and

1554
00:54:14,870 --> 00:54:12,720
wolfram right so one guy's just looking

1555
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:14,880
at geometry and equations the math

1556
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:16,319
but the other guy's really looking at

1557
00:54:20,390 --> 00:54:18,319
computer processing

1558
00:54:21,589 --> 00:54:20,400
computation computational stuff it's

1559
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:21,599
different okay

1560
00:54:27,750 --> 00:54:25,119
so what math does you know

1561
00:54:29,190 --> 00:54:27,760
if if you understand how the reality is

1562
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:29,200
being computed

1563
00:54:35,910 --> 00:54:32,640
well then yes you you know you have a

1564
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:35,920
direct you know a direct understanding

1565
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:38,960
of the algorithms but our reality is

1566
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:42,480
a couple of things here one math does

1567
00:54:52,549 --> 00:54:48,710
actually explain math

1568
00:54:53,109 --> 00:54:52,559
predicts math describes so let's just

1569
00:54:55,910 --> 00:54:53,119
take a

1570
00:54:57,829 --> 00:54:55,920
a i've got a charge here say a positive

1571
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:57,839
charge you can't see my hands

1572
00:55:02,069 --> 00:55:00,400
positive charge here and i'm going to

1573
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:02,079
i'm going to measure

1574
00:55:07,190 --> 00:55:04,640
uh the force that it'll have on a

1575
00:55:09,990 --> 00:55:07,200
negative charge here

1576
00:55:10,789 --> 00:55:10,000
okay now because this is action at a

1577
00:55:13,190 --> 00:55:10,799
distance

1578
00:55:15,190 --> 00:55:13,200
i'm going to say that there's a field a

1579
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:15,200
magnetic field between them and that

1580
00:55:18,950 --> 00:55:18,079
field then is what interacts with this

1581
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:18,960
this

1582
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:21,359
charge appears and pulls it down right

1583
00:55:25,270 --> 00:55:22,480
it's a field thing

1584
00:55:26,069 --> 00:55:25,280
well there are no fields fields are

1585
00:55:29,670 --> 00:55:26,079
imaginary

1586
00:55:31,270 --> 00:55:29,680
fields don't exist in a virtual reality

1587
00:55:33,670 --> 00:55:31,280
you don't need fields all you need is

1588
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:33,680
the equation that computes the force

1589
00:55:38,549 --> 00:55:36,720
the force is real the field is just

1590
00:55:40,870 --> 00:55:38,559
mathematics that describes the

1591
00:55:42,549 --> 00:55:40,880
experience you see

1592
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:42,559
it predicts i can predict what this

1593
00:55:44,789 --> 00:55:43,760
force is because i can do the

1594
00:55:47,190 --> 00:55:44,799
mathematics

1595
00:55:48,710 --> 00:55:47,200
but a prediction isn't a cause i can

1596
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:48,720
predict when the bus is going to come to

1597
00:55:51,750 --> 00:55:50,000
the bus station but

1598
00:55:53,589 --> 00:55:51,760
i don't cause the bus to come to the bus

1599
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:53,599
station i just can predict it

1600
00:55:59,109 --> 00:55:57,040
so you have to you have to not take the

1601
00:56:00,789 --> 00:55:59,119
math as seriously as most of the

1602
00:56:03,430 --> 00:56:00,799
physicists take the math

1603
00:56:05,510 --> 00:56:03,440
they're trying to describe something if

1604
00:56:07,510 --> 00:56:05,520
their mathematics is not exactly the

1605
00:56:08,470 --> 00:56:07,520
same as the computations that are

1606
00:56:10,870 --> 00:56:08,480
creating it

1607
00:56:12,549 --> 00:56:10,880
and there's a lot of math that's you

1608
00:56:13,030 --> 00:56:12,559
know the analytical math that you think

1609
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:13,040
of as

1610
00:56:16,069 --> 00:56:15,760
math besides the computational math is

1611
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,079
quite

1612
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:18,480
different so it's combinations of these

1613
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:19,359
things

1614
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:21,599
and now the way the reality actually

1615
00:56:26,309 --> 00:56:23,440
works though this physical reality we

1616
00:56:27,750 --> 00:56:26,319
kind of need to say this otherwise

1617
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:27,760
you know you're going to get wounded up

1618
00:56:34,309 --> 00:56:30,559
with over the you know over the math

1619
00:56:37,589 --> 00:56:34,319
and that is that you have a rule set

1620
00:56:39,589 --> 00:56:37,599
this virtual reality was created not by

1621
00:56:40,630 --> 00:56:39,599
programmers programming it but it has

1622
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:40,640
evolved

1623
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:43,680
it's an evolving thing it started with a

1624
00:56:48,630 --> 00:56:44,960
initial conditions

1625
00:56:51,670 --> 00:56:48,640
was that

1626
00:56:53,349 --> 00:56:51,680
plasma

1627
00:56:55,270 --> 00:56:53,359
high temperature high pressure whatever

1628
00:56:56,390 --> 00:56:55,280
initial conditions and then the run

1629
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:56,400
button was hit

1630
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:59,119
and those initial conditions change

1631
00:57:03,030 --> 00:57:00,160
according to the

1632
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:03,040
rule set now ruleset is what we think of

1633
00:57:07,510 --> 00:57:04,319
as physics

1634
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:07,520
so that rule set is primarily

1635
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:09,760
deterministic

1636
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:13,280
so it has random things in it

1637
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:15,760
but it's pretty much deterministic with

1638
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:17,359
some randomness added because some

1639
00:57:21,430 --> 00:57:18,319
events are just

1640
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:21,440
random as a good description so anyway

1641
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:25,920
then the world that we're talking about

1642
00:57:30,309 --> 00:57:26,640
is not

1643
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,319
calculated from that rule set

1644
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:32,319
the world that we experience out here in

1645
00:57:37,109 --> 00:57:33,599
the physical world

1646
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,119
is a probabilistic world because

1647
00:57:40,789 --> 00:57:39,200
calculating everything from the ground

1648
00:57:44,549 --> 00:57:40,799
up starting with quarks

1649
00:57:46,710 --> 00:57:44,559
and working your way up is not

1650
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:46,720
it's untenable it's untenable it doesn't

1651
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:47,599
work

1652
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,599
i wouldn't say it's impossible it's just

1653
00:57:52,829 --> 00:57:51,520
there's also at least wolfram would say

1654
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,839
something called computational

1655
00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:54,880
irreducibility which means that even if

1656
00:57:59,589 --> 00:57:56,319
we were to try to compute

1657
00:58:01,030 --> 00:57:59,599
the actions of the next say 10 minutes

1658
00:58:02,470 --> 00:58:01,040
the amount of computational power that

1659
00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:02,480
would be needed would be the size of the

1660
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:04,000
room or the size of the universe and so

1661
00:58:08,230 --> 00:58:05,119
you can't do it yeah anyway

1662
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:08,240
just exactly skirting right it's hurting

1663
00:58:11,750 --> 00:58:10,000
you yeah it just doesn't make any sense

1664
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:11,760
so what happens is that

1665
00:58:15,270 --> 00:58:14,319
the rule set creates the probability

1666
00:58:16,710 --> 00:58:15,280
distributions

1667
00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:16,720
what's the rule set do you mean the

1668
00:58:20,309 --> 00:58:18,880
physical law yeah the physical laws the

1669
00:58:22,309 --> 00:58:20,319
rule set remember we start with initial

1670
00:58:24,230 --> 00:58:22,319
conditions and a rule set yeah

1671
00:58:25,829 --> 00:58:24,240
and we punch the run button and the

1672
00:58:27,589 --> 00:58:25,839
initial conditions change according to a

1673
00:58:30,309 --> 00:58:27,599
rule set we end up with this universe

1674
00:58:31,589 --> 00:58:30,319
okay so it's all just evolving initial

1675
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:31,599
conditions evolve

1676
00:58:36,150 --> 00:58:34,799
under the rule set and it evolves and

1677
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:36,160
then we can just pick up with the

1678
00:58:39,190 --> 00:58:37,359
physicist you know the whole thing

1679
00:58:40,470 --> 00:58:39,200
evolves and the biologists and the whole

1680
00:58:43,349 --> 00:58:40,480
thing evolves

1681
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:43,359
so that's the virtual reality that's how

1682
00:58:47,109 --> 00:58:44,720
it's computed it's computed in

1683
00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:47,119
consciousness it's a simulation

1684
00:58:50,150 --> 00:58:48,880
and it's not it's not that somebody

1685
00:58:52,230 --> 00:58:50,160
programs it so

1686
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:52,240
if you understand that now when we do

1687
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:53,520
something here

1688
00:58:56,870 --> 00:58:54,880
let's say we're just going to a good

1689
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:56,880
example is we fire a cannon simple

1690
00:58:59,109 --> 00:58:58,480
example because cannon's a very simple

1691
00:59:01,270 --> 00:58:59,119
machine

1692
00:59:02,630 --> 00:59:01,280
it's a tube with a ball in it and

1693
00:59:04,789 --> 00:59:02,640
gunpowder behind it you light the

1694
00:59:05,990 --> 00:59:04,799
gunpowder and it increases the pressure

1695
00:59:07,990 --> 00:59:06,000
and out goes the ball

1696
00:59:09,910 --> 00:59:08,000
okay that's simple now if you tried to

1697
00:59:11,750 --> 00:59:09,920
describe that in detail at the

1698
00:59:13,670 --> 00:59:11,760
even the molecular level you couldn't do

1699
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:13,680
it it'd be too hard

1700
00:59:16,789 --> 00:59:16,160
or it would take a lot of computer thing

1701
00:59:19,030 --> 00:59:16,799
power

1702
00:59:21,030 --> 00:59:19,040
so what you do is you describe it with

1703
00:59:22,950 --> 00:59:21,040
statistics with probability

1704
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:22,960
and you say okay here's a canon made out

1705
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:24,480
of certain kinds of material

1706
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,160
you know constructed a certain way the

1707
00:59:29,589 --> 00:59:28,319
barrel isn't really exactly a cylinder

1708
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,599
there's lumps and creases

1709
00:59:32,950 --> 00:59:31,520
in it and the ball isn't precisely a

1710
00:59:34,789 --> 00:59:32,960
sphere it's got

1711
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,799
things in it too and the powder doesn't

1712
00:59:39,349 --> 00:59:37,520
burn particularly whatever so you have

1713
00:59:41,349 --> 00:59:39,359
the cannonball if you fire the cannon 10

1714
00:59:43,030 --> 00:59:41,359
times that ball will not land in exactly

1715
00:59:44,150 --> 00:59:43,040
the same place it'll land in a bunch of

1716
00:59:45,990 --> 00:59:44,160
different places

1717
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:46,000
it'll produce a pattern that's called a

1718
00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:47,520
you know the dispersion

1719
00:59:52,710 --> 00:59:50,319
of the cannon and you represent that

1720
00:59:55,430 --> 00:59:52,720
with a probability distribution

1721
00:59:57,589 --> 00:59:55,440
now in a virtual reality the and you

1722
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,599
have a war going on with these cannons

1723
01:00:02,150 --> 00:59:59,280
somebody fires a cannon

1724
01:00:04,150 --> 01:00:02,160
and the rendering engine that renders

1725
01:00:06,470 --> 01:00:04,160
the virtual reality goes into that

1726
01:00:07,430 --> 01:00:06,480
that dispersion that probability

1727
01:00:09,910 --> 01:00:07,440
distribution

1728
01:00:11,270 --> 01:00:09,920
randomly picks out something that is

1729
01:00:12,470 --> 01:00:11,280
probable

1730
01:00:13,829 --> 01:00:12,480
that's where it puts the k you know

1731
01:00:15,030 --> 01:00:13,839
possible and that's where it puts the

1732
01:00:18,150 --> 01:00:15,040
cannonball

1733
01:00:21,990 --> 01:00:18,160
you see so you don't have the system

1734
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:22,000
doesn't have to to model

1735
01:00:28,630 --> 01:00:26,400
the whole process in detail it develops

1736
01:00:29,829 --> 01:00:28,640
probability distributions based on the

1737
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:29,839
rule set

1738
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:31,760
and then it can use these probability

1739
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,000
distributions to create

1740
01:00:37,589 --> 01:00:36,480
the canon in the real world so now we

1741
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:37,599
fire a canon

1742
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:40,319
and the system just puts a ball at a

1743
01:00:44,950 --> 01:00:43,119
particular place

1744
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:44,960
okay so an analogy would be fairly

1745
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,720
simple it would be like a video game

1746
01:00:49,829 --> 01:00:48,160
it has a probability distribution like

1747
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:49,839
think of it like that then just scale it

1748
01:00:53,270 --> 01:00:50,799
up to your experience

1749
01:00:55,270 --> 01:00:53,280
exactly so that's the way it works so

1750
01:00:58,309 --> 01:00:55,280
from from my viewpoint what's going on

1751
01:01:02,150 --> 01:00:58,319
here in our in our physical world in pmr

1752
01:01:04,069 --> 01:01:02,160
okay that's at the probabilistic level

1753
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:04,079
everything here's what hits me here's

1754
01:01:07,190 --> 01:01:05,680
what hits me right away okay so there's

1755
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,200
the matrix obviously like simulation

1756
01:01:10,069 --> 01:01:08,880
hypothesis and then there's also donald

1757
01:01:12,470 --> 01:01:10,079
hoffman if you've heard of

1758
01:01:14,390 --> 01:01:12,480
yeah it's consciousness theorist okay so

1759
01:01:17,270 --> 01:01:14,400
let's compare and contrast yours

1760
01:01:17,910 --> 01:01:17,280
and the matrix well let's say simulation

1761
01:01:20,549 --> 01:01:17,920
in general

1762
01:01:21,910 --> 01:01:20,559
so simulated reality and then donald

1763
01:01:23,030 --> 01:01:21,920
hoffman so where do you agree and

1764
01:01:27,349 --> 01:01:23,040
disagree with those two

1765
01:01:29,829 --> 01:01:27,359
hypothesis hypotheses uh

1766
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:29,839
my i also have a you know i would fit

1767
01:01:34,230 --> 01:01:32,240
under a simulation hypothesis too

1768
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:34,240
my you could put my work into that

1769
01:01:38,150 --> 01:01:35,280
category

1770
01:01:39,510 --> 01:01:38,160
but mine is very different than it's not

1771
01:01:40,710 --> 01:01:39,520
that we're being simulated by higher

1772
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:40,720
intelligent beings

1773
01:01:44,309 --> 01:01:43,440
right so what happened yeah what

1774
01:01:45,750 --> 01:01:44,319
happened these other

1775
01:01:47,589 --> 01:01:45,760
these other guys doing their their

1776
01:01:50,789 --> 01:01:47,599
virtual realities somebody asked well

1777
01:01:52,950 --> 01:01:50,799
you know who's what's the computer

1778
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,960
who are the programmers and they're

1779
01:01:56,470 --> 01:01:54,960
stuck for an answer

1780
01:01:58,789 --> 01:01:56,480
yeah they don't know you get an infinite

1781
01:02:00,870 --> 01:01:58,799
regress which is illogical

1782
01:02:01,829 --> 01:02:00,880
that doesn't make any sense there is no

1783
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:01,839
infinite regress

1784
01:02:05,990 --> 01:02:05,359
in physics infinity doesn't really exist

1785
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:06,000
as a physical

1786
01:02:11,589 --> 01:02:09,119
thing all right so we have i don't but

1787
01:02:12,710 --> 01:02:11,599
okay okay so okay let's just say on this

1788
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:12,720
path for just this okay

1789
01:02:16,950 --> 01:02:16,079
all right all right so they come up with

1790
01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:16,960
something that's this

1791
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,599
way stretch you know hand waving thing

1792
01:02:22,470 --> 01:02:21,520
it's our future selves or something that

1793
01:02:24,630 --> 01:02:22,480
are doing this

1794
01:02:26,549 --> 01:02:24,640
well that's a pretty that's a pretty

1795
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:26,559
huge leap you know

1796
01:02:30,630 --> 01:02:28,000
that's one of those in a miracle

1797
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:30,640
occurred so i don't go there with that

1798
01:02:35,349 --> 01:02:31,440
kind of a big

1799
01:02:37,349 --> 01:02:35,359
big leap so i have

1800
01:02:38,549 --> 01:02:37,359
that uh you know consciousness is the

1801
01:02:40,710 --> 01:02:38,559
computer and i can

1802
01:02:42,309 --> 01:02:40,720
logically explain why consciousness

1803
01:02:43,029 --> 01:02:42,319
would want to make this virtual reality

1804
01:02:44,549 --> 01:02:43,039
you know that's

1805
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:44,559
that's a lot that's part of the logical

1806
01:02:48,390 --> 01:02:46,079
process that gets

1807
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:48,400
that will be you know explained and what

1808
01:02:50,710 --> 01:02:50,160
the point of it is and the purpose and

1809
01:02:53,349 --> 01:02:50,720
the whole

1810
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:53,359
thing comes out very logically but then

1811
01:02:57,109 --> 01:02:54,240
i have this

1812
01:02:58,150 --> 01:02:57,119
reality that isn't computing all the

1813
01:03:01,990 --> 01:02:58,160
details

1814
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,000
it's basically computing probabilities

1815
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:04,559
and it go it puts as much detail in it

1816
01:03:07,270 --> 01:03:05,520
as it needs

1817
01:03:09,829 --> 01:03:07,280
so if we're taking a measurement and now

1818
01:03:12,789 --> 01:03:09,839
i take my my millimeter wave radar

1819
01:03:13,510 --> 01:03:12,799
and i track that cannonball now it has

1820
01:03:16,870 --> 01:03:13,520
to

1821
01:03:18,789 --> 01:03:16,880
simulate that it only does what it needs

1822
01:03:19,990 --> 01:03:18,799
in order to save on computational power

1823
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:20,000
or for what reason

1824
01:03:24,710 --> 01:03:22,960
it just does it only does as much detail

1825
01:03:26,069 --> 01:03:24,720
as it needs to do for the measurements

1826
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:26,079
that are being taken

1827
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,880
so here we are we are the avatars our

1828
01:03:32,789 --> 01:03:30,720
bodies we're the avatars

1829
01:03:33,910 --> 01:03:32,799
who we actually are ourselves we're

1830
01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:33,920
consciousness

1831
01:03:38,230 --> 01:03:35,520
we're an individuated unit of

1832
01:03:41,270 --> 01:03:38,240
consciousness okay we're not the avatar

1833
01:03:43,430 --> 01:03:41,280
the avatar's just the player quick aside

1834
01:03:44,309 --> 01:03:43,440
quick aside come right back we'll come

1835
01:03:46,470 --> 01:03:44,319
right back you said we're an

1836
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:46,480
individuated unit of consciousness now

1837
01:03:50,470 --> 01:03:48,400
what about some of the proposals that we

1838
01:03:51,029 --> 01:03:50,480
comprise multiple consciousnesses vying

1839
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:51,039
for

1840
01:03:54,069 --> 01:03:52,640
power so when you split the corpus

1841
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:54,079
callosum you know that there's two

1842
01:03:57,270 --> 01:03:55,920
and it seems like whenever we get mad

1843
01:03:58,470 --> 01:03:57,280
it's as if that personality that

1844
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:58,480
consciousness comes out is

1845
01:04:01,990 --> 01:04:00,880
whenever we get let's say anxious it's

1846
01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:02,000
like that one wins

1847
01:04:04,230 --> 01:04:03,119
and it's as if they're their own

1848
01:04:05,190 --> 01:04:04,240
consciousness they're their own little

1849
01:04:08,150 --> 01:04:05,200
personalities

1850
01:04:09,430 --> 01:04:08,160
vying inside our head fighting now how

1851
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:09,440
do we make sense of that

1852
01:04:12,789 --> 01:04:10,960
when we say that we're a unified

1853
01:04:14,549 --> 01:04:12,799
individual unit of consciousness

1854
01:04:19,829 --> 01:04:14,559
you are an individuated unit of

1855
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:22,789
you have two ways of processing data and

1856
01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:23,680
this is there's two

1857
01:04:26,870 --> 01:04:25,760
two things two sides to this that i need

1858
01:04:28,630 --> 01:04:26,880
to give you one

1859
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:28,640
you have two ways of processing data you

1860
01:04:31,750 --> 01:04:30,240
can process data as

1861
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:31,760
consciousness you are a consciousness

1862
01:04:37,109 --> 01:04:34,160
you process data intellectually

1863
01:04:37,990 --> 01:04:37,119
and you can process data intuitively

1864
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:38,000
those are two

1865
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:40,319
different ways that your consciousness

1866
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:41,920
processes data

1867
01:04:47,349 --> 01:04:45,359
okay now the when you in when you use

1868
01:04:49,589 --> 01:04:47,359
your intellect to process data the major

1869
01:04:52,150 --> 01:04:49,599
tool you use is called logic

1870
01:04:53,750 --> 01:04:52,160
and logic is a very precise tool but the

1871
01:04:55,990 --> 01:04:53,760
problem with using your intellect is

1872
01:04:58,950 --> 01:04:56,000
mostly you don't have enough information

1873
01:05:01,349 --> 01:04:58,960
to make a deductive right you know a

1874
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:01,359
deduct you could use deductive logic

1875
01:05:04,630 --> 01:05:02,799
because you just don't have enough

1876
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:04,640
information i agree so

1877
01:05:07,990 --> 01:05:07,599
on the intuitive side so you've got this

1878
01:05:11,670 --> 01:05:08,000
you've got

1879
01:05:13,190 --> 01:05:11,680
this precise tool called logic

1880
01:05:14,789 --> 01:05:13,200
and an intellect but it needs to be

1881
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:14,799
directed in what direction it doesn't

1882
01:05:20,829 --> 01:05:16,240
have a whole lot of information

1883
01:05:20,839 --> 01:05:25,510
side

1884
01:05:29,829 --> 01:05:28,390
okay thank you so much oh no problem

1885
01:05:31,109 --> 01:05:29,839
yeah no problem at all i

1886
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:31,119
i've been i've been doing some

1887
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:32,640
transcendental meditation we can talk

1888
01:05:35,670 --> 01:05:34,400
about that i was

1889
01:05:37,029 --> 01:05:35,680
pretty much just following your advice

1890
01:05:38,710 --> 01:05:37,039
you said try it out for three months i

1891
01:05:42,549 --> 01:05:38,720
think i'm a month and a half into it

1892
01:05:44,789 --> 01:05:42,559
we'll talk about that too okay so okay

1893
01:05:45,670 --> 01:05:44,799
let me work on this so we have the

1894
01:05:47,750 --> 01:05:45,680
intellect and

1895
01:05:50,470 --> 01:05:47,760
and uh we have its logic right but we

1896
01:05:51,990 --> 01:05:50,480
have lousy information for the most part

1897
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:52,000
very incomplete let's just say

1898
01:05:56,710 --> 01:05:53,920
incomplete ready information

1899
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:56,720
over on the intuitive side you have your

1900
01:06:01,029 --> 01:05:58,000
your awareness

1901
01:06:01,510 --> 01:06:01,039
okay it's your mind is the tool not the

1902
01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:01,520
logic

1903
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:05,280
it's your mind it's your awareness and

1904
01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:08,559
that awareness is not the precise tool

1905
01:06:11,029 --> 01:06:09,200
of logic

1906
01:06:13,510 --> 01:06:11,039
it's kind of a ratty tool because that

1907
01:06:16,630 --> 01:06:13,520
awareness has to do with your mind

1908
01:06:18,630 --> 01:06:16,640
being in a productive state not being

1909
01:06:21,589 --> 01:06:18,640
full of thoughts you know it needs to

1910
01:06:25,349 --> 01:06:21,599
focus it needs to have low noise

1911
01:06:27,109 --> 01:06:25,359
it needs to to not be intellectually

1912
01:06:27,430 --> 01:06:27,119
trying to process things the intellect

1913
01:06:29,510 --> 01:06:27,440
will

1914
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:29,520
get in the way it needs to let that

1915
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:30,960
intellect go

1916
01:06:34,870 --> 01:06:34,240
so it's over there but it has all the

1917
01:06:41,589 --> 01:06:34,880
data

1918
01:06:47,109 --> 01:06:41,599
precise

1919
01:06:49,510 --> 01:06:47,119
and and and very deep uh amount of data

1920
01:06:51,109 --> 01:06:49,520
but the tool is ratty so you know you

1921
01:06:52,470 --> 01:06:51,119
have these so you have these two sides

1922
01:06:55,109 --> 01:06:52,480
to a person right

1923
01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:55,119
these two things all right now also the

1924
01:06:59,670 --> 01:06:56,160
person has

1925
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:59,680
fear okay fear is the big problem

1926
01:07:04,150 --> 01:07:01,599
fear is what we're trying to evolve away

1927
01:07:06,150 --> 01:07:04,160
from and i can also logically say that

1928
01:07:08,390 --> 01:07:06,160
you know we say consciousness is

1929
01:07:09,029 --> 01:07:08,400
evolving it evolves to lower entropy

1930
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:09,039
states

1931
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:15,920
the same as evolving toward being caring

1932
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:18,720
being cooperative sharing those sorts of

1933
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:20,880
things and that is a logical process too

1934
01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:22,000
i can explain

1935
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:25,200
that as well a lot you know deductively

1936
01:07:29,510 --> 01:07:27,760
so we just have to accept that for now

1937
01:07:31,029 --> 01:07:29,520
until we get to that explanation

1938
01:07:33,029 --> 01:07:31,039
so if you have this the fear is the

1939
01:07:34,549 --> 01:07:33,039
problem and you're trying to evolve

1940
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:34,559
toward becoming

1941
01:07:40,309 --> 01:07:37,920
love okay so if you have this fear

1942
01:07:41,589 --> 01:07:40,319
this fear creates self-centeredness

1943
01:07:44,950 --> 01:07:41,599
because fear is all about

1944
01:07:47,029 --> 01:07:44,960
you and it you know you so it creates

1945
01:07:51,270 --> 01:07:47,039
self-centeredness it creates

1946
01:07:53,670 --> 01:07:51,280
ego it creates beliefs you

1947
01:07:55,670 --> 01:07:53,680
so you have this fear now you're talking

1948
01:07:57,349 --> 01:07:55,680
about you get angry and suddenly

1949
01:07:58,789 --> 01:07:57,359
well if you didn't have the fear you

1950
01:08:00,870 --> 01:07:58,799
wouldn't get angry

1951
01:08:03,190 --> 01:08:00,880
if you got rid of that ego you wouldn't

1952
01:08:05,190 --> 01:08:03,200
get angry you wouldn't have those things

1953
01:08:07,270 --> 01:08:05,200
so basically you've got part of your

1954
01:08:10,309 --> 01:08:07,280
consciousness that is dysfunctional

1955
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:10,319
in that it is fear-based and there's

1956
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:11,680
another part of you that is

1957
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:13,760
growing up that is caring and

1958
01:08:16,470 --> 01:08:15,440
cooperative and wanting to see bigger

1959
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:16,480
pictures

1960
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:19,679
and those two sometimes struggle

1961
01:08:22,789 --> 01:08:22,400
and get in each other's way are those

1962
01:08:24,950 --> 01:08:22,799
two

1963
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:24,960
different consciousnesses no no no it's

1964
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:26,480
just all part of the same thing

1965
01:08:31,990 --> 01:08:29,520
it's a consciousness that is not

1966
01:08:33,590 --> 01:08:32,000
very highly evolved it's a consciousness

1967
01:08:35,590 --> 01:08:33,600
that has fear

1968
01:08:37,430 --> 01:08:35,600
so and it has a lot of fear fear

1969
01:08:40,630 --> 01:08:37,440
manifests

1970
01:08:43,669 --> 01:08:40,640
your anger is coming from that fear

1971
01:08:45,829 --> 01:08:43,679
let's say somebody insults you says you

1972
01:08:47,430 --> 01:08:45,839
don't know anything about that you know

1973
01:08:48,870 --> 01:08:47,440
you're the dumbest person i've ever met

1974
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:48,880
they insult you somehow

1975
01:08:53,189 --> 01:08:51,679
and you get angry about that because

1976
01:08:55,110 --> 01:08:53,199
it's somebody you respect or somebody

1977
01:08:57,669 --> 01:08:55,120
you need to respect like maybe your boss

1978
01:08:59,030 --> 01:08:57,679
or uh someone else so you get that kind

1979
01:09:02,630 --> 01:08:59,040
of an insult

1980
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:02,640
well if you were completely confident if

1981
01:09:06,390 --> 01:09:04,319
you didn't have any fear

1982
01:09:08,149 --> 01:09:06,400
that info that insult would not trigger

1983
01:09:09,430 --> 01:09:08,159
anything it wouldn't trigger any you

1984
01:09:12,470 --> 01:09:09,440
wouldn't have anger

1985
01:09:15,189 --> 01:09:12,480
you'd be aware that that other person

1986
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:15,199
is just misunderstanding and instead of

1987
01:09:18,309 --> 01:09:16,400
being angry

1988
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:18,319
you'd have some compassion and see if

1989
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:19,520
you couldn't maybe fix that

1990
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:21,199
misunderstanding that they had rather

1991
01:09:24,309 --> 01:09:22,080
than getting

1992
01:09:25,749 --> 01:09:24,319
angry so it's not that you have two

1993
01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:25,759
different minds and two different

1994
01:09:28,870 --> 01:09:27,040
consciousness you just have a

1995
01:09:32,229 --> 01:09:28,880
consciousness that has

1996
01:09:35,590 --> 01:09:32,239
fear it has beliefs and it has

1997
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:35,600
ego the ego and the beliefs are both

1998
01:09:40,789 --> 01:09:38,799
created by the fear ego

1999
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:40,799
is awareness in the service of fear

2000
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:42,000
that's why you get these different

2001
01:09:44,070 --> 01:09:43,440
things going on if you wouldn't have

2002
01:09:48,149 --> 01:09:44,080
that

2003
01:09:49,669 --> 01:09:48,159
matter of fact this will maybe uh uh

2004
01:09:52,709 --> 01:09:49,679
give you a cause to uh

2005
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:52,719
to to think differently too if you got

2006
01:09:55,030 --> 01:09:53,600
rid of your fear

2007
01:09:56,630 --> 01:09:55,040
you as consciousness got rid of your

2008
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:56,640
fear which means you're highly evolved

2009
01:09:59,350 --> 01:09:57,520
now

2010
01:10:01,510 --> 01:09:59,360
you're evolving to get rid of your fear

2011
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:01,520
so you've gotten rid of your fear

2012
01:10:06,229 --> 01:10:04,000
at that point you don't have a

2013
01:10:09,270 --> 01:10:06,239
subconscious

2014
01:10:11,830 --> 01:10:09,280
you are entirely conscious of everything

2015
01:10:13,110 --> 01:10:11,840
about you everything that happens you

2016
01:10:16,550 --> 01:10:13,120
don't have any hidden

2017
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:16,560
part there's there's you're your

2018
01:10:19,669 --> 01:10:19,040
sexuality you know your all the other

2019
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:19,679
things that

2020
01:10:23,669 --> 01:10:22,000
that freud would put into an id that's

2021
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:23,679
part of the subconscious and so on

2022
01:10:28,149 --> 01:10:25,280
you're aware of all of that

2023
01:10:29,189 --> 01:10:28,159
nothing's written and you don't have any

2024
01:10:31,830 --> 01:10:29,199
buttons to push

2025
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:31,840
you don't get angry you don't get upset

2026
01:10:36,950 --> 01:10:33,040
you don't even get

2027
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:36,960
uh stressed okay so you live in a

2028
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:39,120
you you live in a place of peace and a

2029
01:10:44,310 --> 01:10:40,800
place of joy

2030
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:44,320
and caring so that's you know

2031
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,320
kind of going to the extreme but the

2032
01:10:52,470 --> 01:10:48,400
subconscious

2033
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:52,480
mind of freud is really

2034
01:10:58,470 --> 01:10:55,920
a dysfunctional part

2035
01:10:59,990 --> 01:10:58,480
of the consciousness what about carl

2036
01:11:01,750 --> 01:11:00,000
jung because carl jung might say that

2037
01:11:04,550 --> 01:11:01,760
the unconscious comprises

2038
01:11:05,830 --> 01:11:04,560
99 of you and that it's impossible for

2039
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:05,840
you to ever be

2040
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:07,600
fully conscious you're always going to

2041
01:11:13,350 --> 01:11:09,760
have a massive amount that's unconscious

2042
01:11:16,709 --> 01:11:13,360
so i defer with jung in that respect

2043
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,719
yeah no well they are having they're

2044
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:19,760
making a very accurate um

2045
01:11:26,310 --> 01:11:23,040
description of people in general

2046
01:11:28,870 --> 01:11:26,320
people in general have lots of fear

2047
01:11:30,709 --> 01:11:28,880
this this uh this virtual reality of

2048
01:11:32,070 --> 01:11:30,719
ours is a schoolhouse it's an entropy

2049
01:11:35,830 --> 01:11:32,080
reduction trainer

2050
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:35,840
if you will and most people

2051
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:38,960
haven't evolved a whole lot so there's

2052
01:11:42,070 --> 01:11:40,000
lots and lots of fear

2053
01:11:43,030 --> 01:11:42,080
so freud looks at it and he says oh ego

2054
01:11:45,430 --> 01:11:43,040
that's a good thing

2055
01:11:47,430 --> 01:11:45,440
everybody needs a healthy ego and carl

2056
01:11:49,030 --> 01:11:47,440
young would say yeah you're never gonna

2057
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:49,040
you know you're never gonna get to the

2058
01:11:53,430 --> 01:11:51,040
point that you know

2059
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:53,440
that you don't have the shadow part of

2060
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:54,880
yourself you know it's always going to

2061
01:11:58,310 --> 01:11:56,080
be a part of you

2062
01:11:59,669 --> 01:11:58,320
well it's not true it doesn't have to

2063
01:12:03,510 --> 01:11:59,679
always be a part of you

2064
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:03,520
but it is a part of virtually everyone

2065
01:12:08,470 --> 01:12:05,440
because everyone has fear

2066
01:12:11,510 --> 01:12:08,480
and there's very few people that

2067
01:12:13,030 --> 01:12:11,520
ever get rid of all that fear so to make

2068
01:12:14,550 --> 01:12:13,040
an analogy would be like looking at the

2069
01:12:14,950 --> 01:12:14,560
earth and saying all the elements that

2070
01:12:16,149 --> 01:12:14,960
exist

2071
01:12:17,510 --> 01:12:16,159
are the ones that are on the earth but

2072
01:12:19,669 --> 01:12:17,520
they don't realize that you can combine

2073
01:12:21,830 --> 01:12:19,679
them and create some that are rare yeah

2074
01:12:22,709 --> 01:12:21,840
that's just exceptional circumstances

2075
01:12:25,990 --> 01:12:22,719
well freud

2076
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:26,000
and and young both were

2077
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:27,600
were experimentalists in a sense they

2078
01:12:30,310 --> 01:12:29,280
looked at people and looked at

2079
01:12:32,709 --> 01:12:30,320
themselves

2080
01:12:34,470 --> 01:12:32,719
and here's what here's what i see here's

2081
01:12:35,510 --> 01:12:34,480
what i see in myself here's what i see

2082
01:12:37,510 --> 01:12:35,520
in other people

2083
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:37,520
and they're making models based on

2084
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:38,800
people well

2085
01:12:44,550 --> 01:12:42,800
everybody almost everybody is full of

2086
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:44,560
fear there may be a few exceptions but

2087
01:12:48,390 --> 01:12:46,480
these are extremely rare people

2088
01:12:50,070 --> 01:12:48,400
so if everybody's full of fear then

2089
01:12:51,830 --> 01:12:50,080
everybody's going to have a shadow

2090
01:12:53,430 --> 01:12:51,840
and if you can't get rid of yours then

2091
01:12:54,390 --> 01:12:53,440
you assume that nobody can get rid of

2092
01:12:56,630 --> 01:12:54,400
theirs either

2093
01:12:57,669 --> 01:12:56,640
so it's it's that sort of a thing it's

2094
01:12:59,830 --> 01:12:57,679
just but it's

2095
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,840
not necessary that's the dysfunctional

2096
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:01,679
part of us that's the part that

2097
01:13:06,470 --> 01:13:04,800
is causing us trouble makes us angry you

2098
01:13:07,910 --> 01:13:06,480
know it's not another mind it's not like

2099
01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:07,920
there's two minds struggling

2100
01:13:10,950 --> 01:13:10,000
it's just one consciousness trying to

2101
01:13:12,630 --> 01:13:10,960
grow up

2102
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,640
trying to evolve the quality of its

2103
01:13:16,229 --> 01:13:14,400
consciousness

2104
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:16,239
okay so here's what occurs to me when i

2105
01:13:22,229 --> 01:13:20,080
hear some people they're usually

2106
01:13:23,990 --> 01:13:22,239
more buddhist oriented or more new age

2107
01:13:26,229 --> 01:13:24,000
or spiritual oriented and they

2108
01:13:27,189 --> 01:13:26,239
dislike fear and say that we need to get

2109
01:13:29,350 --> 01:13:27,199
rid of fear

2110
01:13:32,149 --> 01:13:29,360
and i understand that fear can be

2111
01:13:33,750 --> 01:13:32,159
unadaptive but at the same time people

2112
01:13:35,590 --> 01:13:33,760
who don't feel

2113
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:35,600
well if you don't feel pain let's say

2114
01:13:39,990 --> 01:13:37,520
that's a neurological disorder

2115
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:40,000
if you don't feel fear fear is actually

2116
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,760
necessary for the consolidation of

2117
01:13:44,790 --> 01:13:43,840
long-term memory for declarative memory

2118
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,800
in particular

2119
01:13:48,310 --> 01:13:46,480
and there are a few patients who just

2120
01:13:49,830 --> 01:13:48,320
have a disorder it would be called a

2121
01:13:51,270 --> 01:13:49,840
disorder because it's unadaptive

2122
01:13:53,189 --> 01:13:51,280
where they don't feel fear and then they

2123
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:53,199
can't remember much they also

2124
01:13:57,189 --> 01:13:55,440
have no bounds socially they come up to

2125
01:13:58,870 --> 01:13:57,199
your face and talk to your nose to nose

2126
01:14:00,709 --> 01:13:58,880
because they just don't read the cues

2127
01:14:02,870 --> 01:14:00,719
they don't feel the slight social fear

2128
01:14:04,950 --> 01:14:02,880
the slight guilt the slight shame

2129
01:14:06,630 --> 01:14:04,960
and those i see is also tempering

2130
01:14:09,270 --> 01:14:06,640
mechanisms for us to interact

2131
01:14:10,709 --> 01:14:09,280
so when people say eliminate your fear i

2132
01:14:13,110 --> 01:14:10,719
wonder

2133
01:14:14,070 --> 01:14:13,120
if they mean what i'm interpreting them

2134
01:14:17,430 --> 01:14:14,080
to mean

2135
01:14:19,669 --> 01:14:17,440
because it can't be all fear and also

2136
01:14:21,350 --> 01:14:19,679
can't be simply ego based given that

2137
01:14:23,990 --> 01:14:21,360
there's the startle reflex

2138
01:14:24,950 --> 01:14:24,000
there's like that's not under conscious

2139
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:24,960
control there's

2140
01:14:29,510 --> 01:14:27,120
fear you know getting rid of fear

2141
01:14:32,070 --> 01:14:29,520
doesn't mean that you become stupid

2142
01:14:34,070 --> 01:14:32,080
so somebody might say well if you're not

2143
01:14:35,510 --> 01:14:34,080
afraid then jump off the cliff well no

2144
01:14:38,070 --> 01:14:35,520
i won't jump off the cliff because

2145
01:14:39,430 --> 01:14:38,080
that's stupid you know i

2146
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:39,440
just because i don't have fear doesn't

2147
01:14:43,030 --> 01:14:41,360
mean i want to die you know well don't

2148
01:14:45,110 --> 01:14:43,040
go out and walk in the woods

2149
01:14:46,070 --> 01:14:45,120
where the grizzly bears are because you

2150
01:14:47,830 --> 01:14:46,080
know you might

2151
01:14:49,430 --> 01:14:47,840
run into one and that would be a problem

2152
01:14:51,590 --> 01:14:49,440
so you don't go out and that fear

2153
01:14:53,430 --> 01:14:51,600
keeps you safe the fear doesn't keep you

2154
01:14:55,350 --> 01:14:53,440
safe the fear

2155
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:55,360
will always make things worse if you

2156
01:14:57,510 --> 01:14:57,040
have to go out in those woods for some

2157
01:15:00,070 --> 01:14:57,520
reason

2158
01:15:01,990 --> 01:15:00,080
and you have fear you're less likely to

2159
01:15:04,550 --> 01:15:02,000
survive than if you don't

2160
01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:04,560
okay so you don't go out in that woods

2161
01:15:12,229 --> 01:15:06,000
because

2162
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:12,239
you understand so it's not that fear

2163
01:15:15,669 --> 01:15:13,760
saves people from going out in the woods

2164
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:15,679
with grizzly bears

2165
01:15:20,390 --> 01:15:18,800
intelligence does that being aware and

2166
01:15:21,910 --> 01:15:20,400
if you have to go out in that woods

2167
01:15:22,709 --> 01:15:21,920
because grandma who lives on the other

2168
01:15:25,350 --> 01:15:22,719
side of the woods

2169
01:15:25,830 --> 01:15:25,360
is having a problem and you need to go

2170
01:15:29,189 --> 01:15:25,840
then

2171
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:29,199
if you're fearful you will attract bears

2172
01:15:35,510 --> 01:15:32,480
you will attract predators you will do

2173
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:35,520
exactly the wrong thing you'll run which

2174
01:15:38,790 --> 01:15:36,400
is a prey

2175
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:38,800
symbol and you will have you just do all

2176
01:15:42,790 --> 01:15:40,320
the wrong things if you

2177
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:42,800
are intelligent and not afraid well then

2178
01:15:45,590 --> 01:15:44,560
you have come with your pepper spray and

2179
01:15:47,189 --> 01:15:45,600
your air horn

2180
01:15:48,870 --> 01:15:47,199
and you will know whether to stare in

2181
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:48,880
his eye or to look at the ground you'll

2182
01:15:53,590 --> 01:15:49,920
know whether to run

2183
01:15:56,390 --> 01:15:53,600
or to walk slowly so not being afraid

2184
01:15:57,030 --> 01:15:56,400
is what saves you from the bears it's

2185
01:16:00,229 --> 01:15:57,040
the fear

2186
01:16:02,870 --> 01:16:00,239
is what will kill you we

2187
01:16:04,390 --> 01:16:02,880
we say that people you know are better

2188
01:16:05,669 --> 01:16:04,400
off if they have fear of the bears

2189
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:05,679
because it keeps them out of the woods

2190
01:16:09,430 --> 01:16:06,000
well

2191
01:16:11,669 --> 01:16:09,440
no you see we're making

2192
01:16:13,669 --> 01:16:11,679
we're assigning the wrong the wrong

2193
01:16:15,669 --> 01:16:13,679
thing to the to the causality there it's

2194
01:16:18,830 --> 01:16:15,679
not the fear that's the thing that's

2195
01:16:20,709 --> 01:16:18,840
that's helping the fear is always a

2196
01:16:23,990 --> 01:16:20,719
problem it's the

2197
01:16:26,630 --> 01:16:24,000
it's the uh intelligent decisions good

2198
01:16:28,550 --> 01:16:26,640
choices making good choices is what

2199
01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:28,560
saves people fear always makes

2200
01:16:33,189 --> 01:16:30,880
everything worse

2201
01:16:35,189 --> 01:16:33,199
so you know you were talking about the

2202
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:35,199
you know you have this uh

2203
01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:38,560
this automatic response let's say

2204
01:16:42,709 --> 01:16:41,440
a response to fear it's not the fear

2205
01:16:45,110 --> 01:16:42,719
that creates that

2206
01:16:47,030 --> 01:16:45,120
that's part of your instincts you've got

2207
01:16:51,030 --> 01:16:47,040
instincts that are hardwired in your

2208
01:16:53,830 --> 01:16:51,040
in your dna in your system and you get a

2209
01:16:54,870 --> 01:16:53,840
stimulus you'll give a response you know

2210
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:54,880
the fight flight

2211
01:16:58,550 --> 01:16:57,120
you crush your leg and get a little

2212
01:17:00,310 --> 01:16:58,560
rubber hammer and tap it at the right

2213
01:17:03,030 --> 01:17:00,320
place your leg will shoot up

2214
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:03,040
that's just because we have instincts we

2215
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:04,880
have hard wiring

2216
01:17:09,270 --> 01:17:07,600
and that hard wiring will do whatever it

2217
01:17:11,189 --> 01:17:09,280
does it's like an if then statement

2218
01:17:13,750 --> 01:17:11,199
in a computer you know if you trigger it

2219
01:17:15,270 --> 01:17:13,760
it'll you'll get the result

2220
01:17:17,030 --> 01:17:15,280
so you do have those things but they're

2221
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:17,040
not fear-based

2222
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:20,960
fear always creates a problem

2223
01:17:28,070 --> 01:17:24,400
you know it's you know we

2224
01:17:28,950 --> 01:17:28,080
you know we don't explain sexuality to

2225
01:17:30,470 --> 01:17:28,960
our

2226
01:17:32,470 --> 01:17:30,480
young people because we think if they're

2227
01:17:33,350 --> 01:17:32,480
afraid of it you know we we scare them

2228
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:33,360
about it

2229
01:17:39,669 --> 01:17:36,640
so that you know they'll be afraid

2230
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:39,679
to play with it until they're much older

2231
01:17:42,870 --> 01:17:41,600
so we think that fear will keep them

2232
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:42,880
safe you know the fear

2233
01:17:46,310 --> 01:17:45,360
is what gets them into trouble knowledge

2234
01:17:49,350 --> 01:17:46,320
will keep them safe

2235
01:17:54,390 --> 01:17:49,360
fear

2236
01:17:57,270 --> 01:17:54,400
so what do you think of the statement

2237
01:18:00,709 --> 01:17:57,280
fear of god as the beginning of wisdom

2238
01:18:04,550 --> 01:18:00,719
well i think that's just wrong it's not

2239
01:18:05,990 --> 01:18:04,560
fear of god you shouldn't be fearing god

2240
01:18:07,830 --> 01:18:06,000
you know we just assume that there's

2241
01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:07,840
such a thing as god just for the sake of

2242
01:18:12,390 --> 01:18:09,120
the conversation

2243
01:18:13,990 --> 01:18:12,400
but fearing is the wrong thing you need

2244
01:18:17,669 --> 01:18:14,000
to understand

2245
01:18:19,910 --> 01:18:17,679
god and and what it means and what that

2246
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,920
is and what the relationship that you

2247
01:18:22,870 --> 01:18:21,199
have is

2248
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:22,880
and what's expected and what you should

2249
01:18:28,149 --> 01:18:25,199
be doing and if you understand

2250
01:18:29,030 --> 01:18:28,159
all of that then fear is just gets in

2251
01:18:32,149 --> 01:18:29,040
the way

2252
01:18:35,910 --> 01:18:32,159
fear locks you up fear keeps you from

2253
01:18:37,030 --> 01:18:35,920
from being you you know if you fear

2254
01:18:39,510 --> 01:18:37,040
something

2255
01:18:40,709 --> 01:18:39,520
let's say let's take that example so if

2256
01:18:43,110 --> 01:18:40,719
you do things let's say i

2257
01:18:44,950 --> 01:18:43,120
i'm because i fear god i'm going to be

2258
01:18:46,709 --> 01:18:44,960
nice and kind to people because god says

2259
01:18:48,870 --> 01:18:46,719
you should be nice and kind to people

2260
01:18:50,310 --> 01:18:48,880
okay so when i see somebody that you

2261
01:18:51,830 --> 01:18:50,320
know i can be nice to then i'll go over

2262
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:51,840
and i'll be nice to them

2263
01:19:00,149 --> 01:18:56,480
well that is acting you're acting nice

2264
01:19:02,790 --> 01:19:00,159
because you have fear you're acting nice

2265
01:19:04,550 --> 01:19:02,800
well acting nice is civilizing but it

2266
01:19:07,189 --> 01:19:04,560
doesn't help you grow up any

2267
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:07,199
you got to be nice and there's a big

2268
01:19:11,510 --> 01:19:08,400
difference between

2269
01:19:12,630 --> 01:19:11,520
acting kind and being kind a huge

2270
01:19:14,790 --> 01:19:12,640
difference

2271
01:19:15,669 --> 01:19:14,800
so the fear perhaps will make you act

2272
01:19:17,830 --> 01:19:15,679
kind

2273
01:19:19,030 --> 01:19:17,840
but though civilizing is not going to

2274
01:19:21,830 --> 01:19:19,040
help you grow up

2275
01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:21,840
it's not who you are you're just acting

2276
01:19:24,950 --> 01:19:23,440
because then some other time when it's

2277
01:19:27,189 --> 01:19:24,960
not convenient that kind

2278
01:19:29,430 --> 01:19:27,199
you won't be kind because you're really

2279
01:19:31,750 --> 01:19:29,440
self-centered and if it's all about you

2280
01:19:34,070 --> 01:19:31,760
you'll be unkind but when anybody's

2281
01:19:35,590 --> 01:19:34,080
looking you'll act kind because

2282
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:35,600
you want to have a good reputation for

2283
01:19:39,669 --> 01:19:37,600
being a nice guy so you see

2284
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:39,679
if you're not really kind you haven't

2285
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:40,800
grown up any

2286
01:19:44,470 --> 01:19:42,560
so that's the thing so the fear of god

2287
01:19:47,510 --> 01:19:44,480
may make you act differently

2288
01:19:48,229 --> 01:19:47,520
but it's not about acting it's about

2289
01:19:50,310 --> 01:19:48,239
being

2290
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:50,320
and the fear will never make you be

2291
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:52,159
anything the fear

2292
01:19:58,470 --> 01:19:55,920
can only make you act won't make you

2293
01:20:00,470 --> 01:19:58,480
change who you are it'll make you just

2294
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:00,480
be

2295
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:03,199
i don't know what to say duplicious so

2296
01:20:06,790 --> 01:20:05,120
it creates another problem

2297
01:20:09,030 --> 01:20:06,800
so now you have the problem that you're

2298
01:20:11,350 --> 01:20:09,040
living your image

2299
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:11,360
not who you are and that'll cause all

2300
01:20:14,070 --> 01:20:12,239
kinds of

2301
01:20:16,149 --> 01:20:14,080
issues you know make you neurotic when

2302
01:20:18,229 --> 01:20:16,159
you aren't in consonance with who you

2303
01:20:21,750 --> 01:20:18,239
really are you're living an image

2304
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:21,760
so fear is you know

2305
01:20:28,950 --> 01:20:25,440
give me another example of good fear

2306
01:20:30,950 --> 01:20:28,960
well as i was reading your book

2307
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:30,960
i see plenty of similarities to jordan

2308
01:20:35,189 --> 01:20:32,639
peterson if you're familiar with him at

2309
01:20:38,629 --> 01:20:35,199
all such as an emphasis on individualism

2310
01:20:40,790 --> 01:20:38,639
and the primacy of your experience also

2311
01:20:42,229 --> 01:20:40,800
peterson does say that there's a book

2312
01:20:43,990 --> 01:20:42,239
called ordinary men you should read that

2313
01:20:45,110 --> 01:20:44,000
book and it's about how ordinary people

2314
01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:45,120
can become monsters

2315
01:20:48,229 --> 01:20:46,719
and shoot pregnant women at the back of

2316
01:20:49,430 --> 01:20:48,239
their head even though you're an

2317
01:20:50,709 --> 01:20:49,440
ordinary person he said

2318
01:20:52,550 --> 01:20:50,719
you should read that because you should

2319
01:20:53,030 --> 01:20:52,560
know what your shadow is in the union

2320
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,040
terms

2321
01:20:56,310 --> 01:20:55,440
because then you would become fearful of

2322
01:20:59,270 --> 01:20:56,320
that and then

2323
01:21:01,030 --> 01:20:59,280
you would start to act right now that's

2324
01:21:04,390 --> 01:21:01,040
one aspect that i see you differing

2325
01:21:07,430 --> 01:21:04,400
from peterson yeah right i don't

2326
01:21:10,790 --> 01:21:07,440
again acting right is civilizing but

2327
01:21:13,110 --> 01:21:10,800
being right is growing

2328
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:13,120
it's becoming it's growing up it's

2329
01:21:15,430 --> 01:21:14,800
becoming something else when you just

2330
01:21:19,510 --> 01:21:15,440
act

2331
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:19,520
you're not becoming

2332
01:21:23,350 --> 01:21:23,040
better person okay i see that fear now

2333
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:23,360
i'll

2334
01:21:27,669 --> 01:21:26,239
act better civilizing but not really

2335
01:21:30,070 --> 01:21:27,679
helpful because

2336
01:21:31,110 --> 01:21:30,080
as soon as you get between a rock and a

2337
01:21:34,310 --> 01:21:31,120
hard place

2338
01:21:35,030 --> 01:21:34,320
that acting that image is gonna come

2339
01:21:38,149 --> 01:21:35,040
right off

2340
01:21:40,390 --> 01:21:38,159
it's it's not even skin deep

2341
01:21:42,310 --> 01:21:40,400
it's a suit you wear it's a behavior

2342
01:21:45,430 --> 01:21:42,320
that you that you do

2343
01:21:48,470 --> 01:21:45,440
but it's not really who you are so

2344
01:21:49,830 --> 01:21:48,480
all you're doing is is acting nicer

2345
01:21:51,669 --> 01:21:49,840
so yeah you okay you look at this

2346
01:21:53,830 --> 01:21:51,679
horrible thing and now you'll act better

2347
01:21:55,910 --> 01:21:53,840
now that's civilizing but not really

2348
01:21:56,629 --> 01:21:55,920
helpful it doesn't take you any place

2349
01:21:59,590 --> 01:21:56,639
you got to be

2350
01:22:00,310 --> 01:21:59,600
better not just act so if we all had

2351
01:22:02,709 --> 01:22:00,320
this great

2352
01:22:04,070 --> 01:22:02,719
uh you know illusionary persona that we

2353
01:22:05,750 --> 01:22:04,080
carry around with us

2354
01:22:07,270 --> 01:22:05,760
and we all act nice to each other and

2355
01:22:09,430 --> 01:22:07,280
are polite and kind and

2356
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:09,440
and so on well like i say said civil

2357
01:22:13,270 --> 01:22:10,880
lines that's nice

2358
01:22:14,790 --> 01:22:13,280
but as soon as something horrible

2359
01:22:17,910 --> 01:22:14,800
happens to where now that

2360
01:22:20,550 --> 01:22:17,920
that nice persona you know

2361
01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:20,560
isn't uh isn't functioning for you

2362
01:22:23,430 --> 01:22:21,760
anymore because now you're in a

2363
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:23,440
life-and-death situation well you're

2364
01:22:26,149 --> 01:22:24,960
going to shoot that pregnant woman

2365
01:22:27,590 --> 01:22:26,159
because that's the only thing that's

2366
01:22:29,350 --> 01:22:27,600
going to save your life because

2367
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:29,360
somebody else has told you to do that

2368
01:22:31,430 --> 01:22:30,560
and they're going to shoot you if you

2369
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:31,440
don't

2370
01:22:39,030 --> 01:22:35,040
so you have fear fear of death

2371
01:22:40,070 --> 01:22:39,040
perhaps and you degenerate to what you

2372
01:22:42,550 --> 01:22:40,080
really are

2373
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:42,560
so when the going gets tough people

2374
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:44,480
degenerate to what they really are

2375
01:22:47,910 --> 01:22:47,280
what's inside that's why ordinary people

2376
01:22:50,709 --> 01:22:47,920
can do

2377
01:22:51,270 --> 01:22:50,719
horrendous things because they are

2378
01:22:54,709 --> 01:22:51,280
walking

2379
01:22:57,750 --> 01:22:54,719
images they're not really so much

2380
01:23:00,070 --> 01:22:57,760
nice people as they act that way so

2381
01:23:01,910 --> 01:23:00,080
i say that that's the difference yes i

2382
01:23:03,590 --> 01:23:01,920
would disagree with that the whole point

2383
01:23:04,310 --> 01:23:03,600
isn't for us to act better it's for us

2384
01:23:07,750 --> 01:23:04,320
to become

2385
01:23:08,070 --> 01:23:07,760
better yeah okay see let's not harp on

2386
01:23:09,590 --> 01:23:08,080
this

2387
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:09,600
but i'm trying to make sense of it

2388
01:23:11,590 --> 01:23:11,120
myself so please forgive me if it sounds

2389
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:11,600
like

2390
01:23:15,669 --> 01:23:13,440
just playing devil's advocate yeah no

2391
01:23:16,870 --> 01:23:15,679
dude you're helping me with that on-ramp

2392
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:16,880
so

2393
01:23:20,950 --> 01:23:20,000
yeah okay see the way that i see it

2394
01:23:24,070 --> 01:23:20,960
currently

2395
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:24,080
is that it's not just that you need fear

2396
01:23:27,669 --> 01:23:26,719
you also need pleasure and both are twin

2397
01:23:29,590 --> 01:23:27,679
mechanisms that

2398
01:23:31,030 --> 01:23:29,600
push you forward in a propitious manner

2399
01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:31,040
so in a salutary place

2400
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:33,040
so let's say you mentioned civilized

2401
01:23:38,629 --> 01:23:34,719
okay how about this

2402
01:23:40,550 --> 01:23:38,639
people who lack guilt who lack shame

2403
01:23:42,229 --> 01:23:40,560
there's a term for them and it's called

2404
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:42,239
psychopaths and not all

2405
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:44,800
serial killers kill because of fear in

2406
01:23:46,870 --> 01:23:46,320
fact they kill because it makes them

2407
01:23:48,149 --> 01:23:46,880
feel

2408
01:23:49,990 --> 01:23:48,159
well first of all sometimes it's

2409
01:23:52,310 --> 01:23:50,000
sexually gratifying at least for them

2410
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,320
and then sometimes it increases their

2411
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:54,320
sense of worth it increases their power

2412
01:23:57,270 --> 01:23:56,080
but i don't see it as they're killing

2413
01:23:58,550 --> 01:23:57,280
because someone's going to kill them

2414
01:23:59,910 --> 01:23:58,560
like the example that you mentioned i

2415
01:24:02,709 --> 01:23:59,920
don't see them killing out of

2416
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:02,719
fear and i see plenty of harm that can

2417
01:24:05,830 --> 01:24:04,320
be done in the absence of fear

2418
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:05,840
and i see plenty of good that can be

2419
01:24:08,629 --> 01:24:07,360
done in the presence of fear that's why

2420
01:24:09,830 --> 01:24:08,639
i'm having a difficult time

2421
01:24:11,990 --> 01:24:09,840
with the claims that we need to

2422
01:24:13,830 --> 01:24:12,000
eliminate fear totally okay

2423
01:24:15,910 --> 01:24:13,840
now the person that you see who's

2424
01:24:18,550 --> 01:24:15,920
psychotic and killing or doing something

2425
01:24:20,310 --> 01:24:18,560
horrible out of fear

2426
01:24:21,830 --> 01:24:20,320
not out of fear they are doing that out

2427
01:24:24,390 --> 01:24:21,840
of fear you're not seeing fear

2428
01:24:25,430 --> 01:24:24,400
as a fundamental thing at the core of

2429
01:24:28,709 --> 01:24:25,440
their being

2430
01:24:29,910 --> 01:24:28,719
you're seeing fear in the sense of what

2431
01:24:31,990 --> 01:24:29,920
they're afraid of

2432
01:24:33,669 --> 01:24:32,000
intellectually you're only thinking

2433
01:24:35,990 --> 01:24:33,679
about them as an intellect

2434
01:24:37,510 --> 01:24:36,000
not as a as a consciousness and as

2435
01:24:39,750 --> 01:24:37,520
consciousness has fear

2436
01:24:42,229 --> 01:24:39,760
okay the reason that person is doing

2437
01:24:45,189 --> 01:24:42,239
that killing is because they have

2438
01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:45,199
they have a fear they have a fear of not

2439
01:24:50,229 --> 01:24:46,960
being good enough they have a fear

2440
01:24:52,149 --> 01:24:50,239
of um you know the world uh

2441
01:24:54,709 --> 01:24:52,159
is treating them badly they have a lot

2442
01:24:57,750 --> 01:24:54,719
of self-centeredness it's all about them

2443
01:24:59,590 --> 01:24:57,760
the fear let's say they were you know

2444
01:25:00,229 --> 01:24:59,600
badly treated as a child and that

2445
01:25:04,629 --> 01:25:00,239
creates

2446
01:25:06,629 --> 01:25:04,639
situations that create fear

2447
01:25:07,990 --> 01:25:06,639
they feel like they're they're the

2448
01:25:10,390 --> 01:25:08,000
victim and

2449
01:25:11,110 --> 01:25:10,400
they don't have guilt because they

2450
01:25:13,750 --> 01:25:11,120
justify

2451
01:25:15,910 --> 01:25:13,760
everything in their mind as being okay

2452
01:25:17,669 --> 01:25:15,920
and those aren't real people anyway

2453
01:25:19,030 --> 01:25:17,679
you know so they they do all those

2454
01:25:21,189 --> 01:25:19,040
things and yes that's that's a

2455
01:25:22,870 --> 01:25:21,199
psychopath but it's not because they

2456
01:25:25,430 --> 01:25:22,880
don't have fears because they do have

2457
01:25:26,470 --> 01:25:25,440
fear fear is at the core of all of those

2458
01:25:29,189 --> 01:25:26,480
things matter of fact

2459
01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:29,199
i would say that if you take all of the

2460
01:25:32,950 --> 01:25:31,120
psychiatric you know we have this book

2461
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:32,960
of psychiatric illnesses

2462
01:25:37,669 --> 01:25:35,840
that are listed and if you take that you

2463
01:25:38,629 --> 01:25:37,679
would find that if you eliminated all

2464
01:25:40,709 --> 01:25:38,639
the ones that were

2465
01:25:42,470 --> 01:25:40,719
basically biological based you know

2466
01:25:42,950 --> 01:25:42,480
don't make enough serotonin or something

2467
01:25:45,110 --> 01:25:42,960
like that

2468
01:25:46,629 --> 01:25:45,120
brain damage if you take all the ones

2469
01:25:50,629 --> 01:25:46,639
that are not

2470
01:25:53,189 --> 01:25:50,639
physical based i'd say that

2471
01:25:54,229 --> 01:25:53,199
almost all of them if not all of them

2472
01:25:56,950 --> 01:25:54,239
are fear-based

2473
01:25:58,070 --> 01:25:56,960
every one of those illnesses is a fear

2474
01:25:59,910 --> 01:25:58,080
at the root

2475
01:26:01,910 --> 01:25:59,920
people are fearful reason people get

2476
01:26:05,830 --> 01:26:01,920
angry is because they feel

2477
01:26:07,189 --> 01:26:05,840
that other they fear that other people

2478
01:26:08,709 --> 01:26:07,199
don't appreciate them they feel that

2479
01:26:10,149 --> 01:26:08,719
other people don't like them or other

2480
01:26:10,790 --> 01:26:10,159
people are going to put them down that

2481
01:26:16,870 --> 01:26:10,800
they

2482
01:26:19,910 --> 01:26:16,880
this fear so when somebody

2483
01:26:21,990 --> 01:26:19,920
says something to them that's an insult

2484
01:26:23,430 --> 01:26:22,000
you know they they roar up because of

2485
01:26:26,629 --> 01:26:23,440
that fear

2486
01:26:30,310 --> 01:26:26,639
or you get the psychopath who kills

2487
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:30,320
because he had a you know a traumatic

2488
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:31,840
childhood where his mother

2489
01:26:35,590 --> 01:26:33,520
beat him every day or something and he's

2490
01:26:38,790 --> 01:26:35,600
got this issue with women

2491
01:26:41,110 --> 01:26:38,800
and he's got probably other problems as

2492
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:41,120
well which may also be biological as

2493
01:26:45,590 --> 01:26:42,719
well as psychological

2494
01:26:46,629 --> 01:26:45,600
but he takes that out the women he's

2495
01:26:49,350 --> 01:26:46,639
killing

2496
01:26:50,870 --> 01:26:49,360
isn't they're not really you know

2497
01:26:52,470 --> 01:26:50,880
they're not really

2498
01:26:54,310 --> 01:26:52,480
women that he's killing he's killing the

2499
01:26:56,229 --> 01:26:54,320
symbol he's killing something

2500
01:26:58,470 --> 01:26:56,239
that is a symbol of his that's causing

2501
01:27:02,229 --> 01:26:58,480
his pain that's what he's doing

2502
01:27:03,669 --> 01:27:02,239
but he's doing that because of fear

2503
01:27:05,830 --> 01:27:03,679
because he's got this so i'm talking

2504
01:27:08,149 --> 01:27:05,840
about fear not just

2505
01:27:10,310 --> 01:27:08,159
being afraid and wanting to run away i'm

2506
01:27:11,830 --> 01:27:10,320
talking about fear is a very fundamental

2507
01:27:14,870 --> 01:27:11,840
dysfunctional thing

2508
01:27:17,910 --> 01:27:14,880
that's at the core of most

2509
01:27:19,750 --> 01:27:17,920
everybody's consciousness and it's the

2510
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:19,760
thing we need to get rid of

2511
01:27:23,110 --> 01:27:21,440
okay that's somewhat different than what

2512
01:27:24,629 --> 01:27:23,120
i hear from most i don't know what to

2513
01:27:26,310 --> 01:27:24,639
call them but let's say spiritual types

2514
01:27:27,990 --> 01:27:26,320
or new age types or whatever it may be

2515
01:27:29,510 --> 01:27:28,000
that say that we must in its entirety

2516
01:27:31,590 --> 01:27:29,520
eliminate fear

2517
01:27:32,950 --> 01:27:31,600
because the way that you've explicated

2518
01:27:35,189 --> 01:27:32,960
fear is just simply

2519
01:27:37,270 --> 01:27:35,199
what's negative for you and what i see

2520
01:27:39,590 --> 01:27:37,280
as fear is as a specific

2521
01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:39,600
neurological feeling that's separate

2522
01:27:42,470 --> 01:27:41,040
from anxiety because there are different

2523
01:27:45,430 --> 01:27:42,480
neurological pathways for

2524
01:27:46,310 --> 01:27:45,440
anxiety for disgust for rancor for

2525
01:27:48,229 --> 01:27:46,320
resentment

2526
01:27:49,350 --> 01:27:48,239
than there is for fear like you can

2527
01:27:50,870 --> 01:27:49,360
actually well i don't know of any

2528
01:27:52,629 --> 01:27:50,880
studies that have done this but i'm sure

2529
01:27:54,229 --> 01:27:52,639
you can take out one with and

2530
01:27:56,390 --> 01:27:54,239
leave the others alone and experience

2531
01:27:58,229 --> 01:27:56,400
one and leave the others alone as well

2532
01:27:59,669 --> 01:27:58,239
so that's why when you mentioned well

2533
01:28:01,270 --> 01:27:59,679
this person has a bitterness about

2534
01:28:02,629 --> 01:28:01,280
reality i would call that bitterness

2535
01:28:04,629 --> 01:28:02,639
or i would call that rancor i wouldn't

2536
01:28:07,270 --> 01:28:04,639
call that fear

2537
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:07,280
and this and the rank or come from it

2538
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:08,159
comes right okay

2539
01:28:11,430 --> 01:28:09,760
right i hear that i hear that plenty

2540
01:28:12,629 --> 01:28:11,440
yeah i hear that plenty and i'm

2541
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:12,639
i'm having a difficult time

2542
01:28:16,390 --> 01:28:14,719
understanding how that's true

2543
01:28:18,070 --> 01:28:16,400
or how that can be shown to be true

2544
01:28:19,189 --> 01:28:18,080
other than you take psychedelics and

2545
01:28:20,790 --> 01:28:19,199
then the person has some

2546
01:28:21,750 --> 01:28:20,800
breakthrough where they've eliminated

2547
01:28:23,189 --> 01:28:21,760
her and now all of a sudden they're

2548
01:28:26,149 --> 01:28:23,199
acting in a more adaptive manner

2549
01:28:27,590 --> 01:28:26,159
but let's put that aside i guess okay we

2550
01:28:29,430 --> 01:28:27,600
can talk about that another time okay

2551
01:28:30,310 --> 01:28:29,440
okay yeah yeah think about fear as the

2552
01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:30,320
as a

2553
01:28:34,470 --> 01:28:33,760
fundamental creator of all those other

2554
01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:34,480
things

2555
01:28:37,510 --> 01:28:36,000
you know of all those other negative

2556
01:28:38,709 --> 01:28:37,520
things that you're talking about that if

2557
01:28:40,709 --> 01:28:38,719
you didn't have fear

2558
01:28:42,390 --> 01:28:40,719
think of it this way think of a person

2559
01:28:43,350 --> 01:28:42,400
who doesn't have fear think think of a

2560
01:28:46,310 --> 01:28:43,360
person who is

2561
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:46,320
love now love is about other not about

2562
01:28:50,629 --> 01:28:47,280
self

2563
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:50,639
there is actually one known patient who

2564
01:28:55,030 --> 01:28:52,320
just couldn't experience fear

2565
01:28:56,229 --> 01:28:55,040
and i think the name's sm046 and she had

2566
01:28:58,390 --> 01:28:56,239
a horrible horrible

2567
01:28:59,270 --> 01:28:58,400
life and it was horrible to people but

2568
01:29:01,830 --> 01:28:59,280
when they say

2569
01:29:03,189 --> 01:29:01,840
couldn't experience fear that doesn't

2570
01:29:06,310 --> 01:29:03,199
mean that she didn't have

2571
01:29:09,110 --> 01:29:06,320
fear it just means that she didn't

2572
01:29:10,070 --> 01:29:09,120
process it she refused to process it she

2573
01:29:13,189 --> 01:29:10,080
refused to act

2574
01:29:17,750 --> 01:29:13,199
on it she refused to experience it

2575
01:29:22,310 --> 01:29:20,070
okay the reason that she can't process

2576
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:22,320
it is probably because she does

2577
01:29:28,229 --> 01:29:25,679
have a lot of fear can't deal with it

2578
01:29:29,270 --> 01:29:28,239
can't connect to it so she's pushed it

2579
01:29:33,590 --> 01:29:29,280
all away

2580
01:29:36,070 --> 01:29:33,600
and none of that none of that

2581
01:29:37,350 --> 01:29:36,080
bothers her anymore she's just somewhat

2582
01:29:40,629 --> 01:29:37,360
like repression

2583
01:29:42,470 --> 01:29:40,639
get to the point you can repress

2584
01:29:44,229 --> 01:29:42,480
all of that so people can do anything

2585
01:29:45,270 --> 01:29:44,239
you like and you just sit there and

2586
01:29:47,270 --> 01:29:45,280
ignore it because

2587
01:29:49,270 --> 01:29:47,280
you don't really care to even be alive

2588
01:29:52,310 --> 01:29:49,280
anyway you know you just are

2589
01:29:55,830 --> 01:29:52,320
like a robot you've you've no you've

2590
01:29:58,950 --> 01:29:55,840
given up connecting and caring

2591
01:30:00,550 --> 01:29:58,960
and then you're a sociopath well you

2592
01:30:02,470 --> 01:30:00,560
give up connecting and caring because of

2593
01:30:04,790 --> 01:30:02,480
fear

2594
01:30:05,990 --> 01:30:04,800
so yes you can that person would maybe

2595
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:06,000
have no guilt or have no

2596
01:30:10,870 --> 01:30:08,960
fear but that doesn't mean they don't

2597
01:30:12,709 --> 01:30:10,880
express the fear so when you do

2598
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:12,719
something scary they don't jump or they

2599
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:14,639
don't say oh get that spider off my arm

2600
01:30:17,750 --> 01:30:15,520
or anything

2601
01:30:18,950 --> 01:30:17,760
because they're past the point of caring

2602
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:18,960
about any of that

2603
01:30:23,110 --> 01:30:21,600
and that's because they have fear fear

2604
01:30:23,750 --> 01:30:23,120
and fear and love are the opposite

2605
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:23,760
things

2606
01:30:29,270 --> 01:30:26,960
okay so love is about other and

2607
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:29,280
other you know it's how can i help not

2608
01:30:34,550 --> 01:30:31,280
what can i get

2609
01:30:37,830 --> 01:30:34,560
what can i do yeah it's all about giving

2610
01:30:41,110 --> 01:30:37,840
not taking it's a it's about

2611
01:30:43,189 --> 01:30:41,120
uh you know other people

2612
01:30:45,030 --> 01:30:43,199
and it's not that you don't you no

2613
01:30:45,910 --> 01:30:45,040
longer are aware of yourself of course

2614
01:30:50,310 --> 01:30:45,920
you are

2615
01:30:52,310 --> 01:30:50,320
you know it's just that you you

2616
01:30:53,990 --> 01:30:52,320
what makes you happy what motivates you

2617
01:30:57,910 --> 01:30:54,000
what gets you to do things

2618
01:31:00,149 --> 01:30:57,920
what uh what

2619
01:31:02,629 --> 01:31:00,159
makes you uh you know what makes you

2620
01:31:05,270 --> 01:31:02,639
smile is helping

2621
01:31:06,709 --> 01:31:05,280
being a part of other people's solutions

2622
01:31:08,149 --> 01:31:06,719
you care about others

2623
01:31:10,229 --> 01:31:08,159
yeah you still take a shower in the

2624
01:31:12,310 --> 01:31:10,239
morning because you care about yourself

2625
01:31:14,070 --> 01:31:12,320
you know you want to wash the dirt off

2626
01:31:16,790 --> 01:31:14,080
but it's that's not your primary

2627
01:31:18,629 --> 01:31:16,800
motivator in life as opposed to your

2628
01:31:21,910 --> 01:31:18,639
primary motivator being

2629
01:31:22,550 --> 01:31:21,920
about you so that's the thing if you

2630
01:31:27,350 --> 01:31:22,560
don't have

2631
01:31:29,350 --> 01:31:27,360
fear then you don't get angry

2632
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:29,360
and the reason that you will probably

2633
01:31:33,430 --> 01:31:30,719
also never have guilt

2634
01:31:34,070 --> 01:31:33,440
is because you'll never do anything to

2635
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:34,080
ever

2636
01:31:37,910 --> 01:31:36,000
feel guilty about because you care about

2637
01:31:38,950 --> 01:31:37,920
people you feel guilty when you do

2638
01:31:41,350 --> 01:31:38,960
something

2639
01:31:42,830 --> 01:31:41,360
you know rude to somebody else well you

2640
01:31:46,229 --> 01:31:42,840
do that because of

2641
01:31:48,709 --> 01:31:46,239
fear so it's a it's just a matter of

2642
01:31:49,910 --> 01:31:48,719
you know you're seeing it on a you're

2643
01:31:53,590 --> 01:31:49,920
seeing the results

2644
01:31:56,950 --> 01:31:53,600
of having fear and naming those results

2645
01:31:59,910 --> 01:31:56,960
as things in themselves rather than as

2646
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:59,920
creations of fear so i'm reducing it to

2647
01:32:02,950 --> 01:32:00,480
two

2648
01:32:04,790 --> 01:32:02,960
fundamental aspects of being and that's

2649
01:32:08,229 --> 01:32:04,800
fear and love

2650
01:32:09,750 --> 01:32:08,239
and you can everything else all the rest

2651
01:32:12,550 --> 01:32:09,760
of psychology

2652
01:32:13,350 --> 01:32:12,560
can be explained in terms of just those

2653
01:32:15,270 --> 01:32:13,360
things

2654
01:32:18,229 --> 01:32:15,280
of fear and love and you can see how the

2655
01:32:20,070 --> 01:32:18,239
fear creates all these other conditions

2656
01:32:21,669 --> 01:32:20,080
that you does the fear come from the

2657
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:21,679
intellect and love comes from the

2658
01:32:24,470 --> 01:32:22,320
intuitive

2659
01:32:26,550 --> 01:32:24,480
part of you or no it's not like that at

2660
01:32:28,550 --> 01:32:26,560
all that fear is a part of you it's also

2661
01:32:29,669 --> 01:32:28,560
down at your core it's part of your

2662
01:32:32,149 --> 01:32:29,679
intuitive self it's

2663
01:32:33,590 --> 01:32:32,159
it's part of your consciousness your

2664
01:32:36,629 --> 01:32:33,600
consciousness

2665
01:32:39,510 --> 01:32:36,639
is trying to evolve

2666
01:32:40,229 --> 01:32:39,520
out of its fear it's trying to grow up

2667
01:32:42,709 --> 01:32:40,239
okay

2668
01:32:44,709 --> 01:32:42,719
that's the dysfunctional part that's the

2669
01:32:46,629 --> 01:32:44,719
that's the random bits

2670
01:32:47,830 --> 01:32:46,639
it's okay when you say my consciousness

2671
01:32:49,669 --> 01:32:47,840
it's a bit of a strange

2672
01:32:51,110 --> 01:32:49,679
phrase because it's like i'm not my

2673
01:32:53,669 --> 01:32:51,120
consciousness it's almost as if

2674
01:32:55,110 --> 01:32:53,679
it's a separate item like this cup so do

2675
01:32:56,229 --> 01:32:55,120
you mean to say like that or is it just

2676
01:32:59,270 --> 01:32:56,239
a useful way of

2677
01:33:00,629 --> 01:32:59,280
because almost everybody thinks that

2678
01:33:02,870 --> 01:33:00,639
they're their body

2679
01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:02,880
yeah i see it i see if i talk about

2680
01:33:07,350 --> 01:33:03,920
consciousness

2681
01:33:09,350 --> 01:33:07,360
big something in the sky

2682
01:33:10,709 --> 01:33:09,360
but your consciousness basically is what

2683
01:33:12,950 --> 01:33:10,719
you are if

2684
01:33:14,629 --> 01:33:12,960
if you thought of your body as an avatar

2685
01:33:15,990 --> 01:33:14,639
and you were consciousness then i could

2686
01:33:18,629 --> 01:33:16,000
just say you

2687
01:33:20,149 --> 01:33:18,639
well you have this you have that but

2688
01:33:20,790 --> 01:33:20,159
most people don't think that way they

2689
01:33:23,669 --> 01:33:20,800
think of

2690
01:33:25,270 --> 01:33:23,679
me as the body right so i say your

2691
01:33:28,229 --> 01:33:25,280
consciousness because of

2692
01:33:29,189 --> 01:33:28,239
because of that so okay so sorry to go

2693
01:33:30,550 --> 01:33:29,199
back you're saying that

2694
01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:30,560
fear is a deep part of one's

2695
01:33:32,870 --> 01:33:32,320
consciousness and it needs to be there

2696
01:33:34,870 --> 01:33:32,880
because

2697
01:33:37,030 --> 01:33:34,880
it's trying to evolve it doesn't need to

2698
01:33:39,270 --> 01:33:37,040
be there it just is there

2699
01:33:40,870 --> 01:33:39,280
it's there because you because the

2700
01:33:44,149 --> 01:33:40,880
conscious hasn't evolved

2701
01:33:46,950 --> 01:33:44,159
yet consciousness comes in potential

2702
01:33:47,750 --> 01:33:46,960
it has potential to do things okay it's

2703
01:33:50,149 --> 01:33:47,760
an awareness

2704
01:33:51,830 --> 01:33:50,159
it makes choices it has the potential to

2705
01:33:53,110 --> 01:33:51,840
make good choices a potential to make

2706
01:33:55,830 --> 01:33:53,120
bad choices

2707
01:33:56,310 --> 01:33:55,840
so it is mostly potential and until it

2708
01:33:58,629 --> 01:33:56,320
has

2709
01:33:59,590 --> 01:33:58,639
experience that potential is just his

2710
01:34:02,550 --> 01:33:59,600
potential

2711
01:34:03,189 --> 01:34:02,560
it has experience by making choices and

2712
01:34:06,470 --> 01:34:03,199
if it makes

2713
01:34:07,590 --> 01:34:06,480
choices that are toward caring and

2714
01:34:10,149 --> 01:34:07,600
kindness and love

2715
01:34:10,950 --> 01:34:10,159
then you know it's evolving if it makes

2716
01:34:14,149 --> 01:34:10,960
choices

2717
01:34:16,310 --> 01:34:14,159
that are self-centered and and you know

2718
01:34:18,149 --> 01:34:16,320
mean-spirited and that sort of thing

2719
01:34:20,629 --> 01:34:18,159
then it de-evolves

2720
01:34:21,750 --> 01:34:20,639
so consciousness has potential now you

2721
01:34:25,110 --> 01:34:21,760
take consciousness

2722
01:34:27,830 --> 01:34:25,120
as it existed originally in

2723
01:34:29,990 --> 01:34:27,840
this consciousness system and think of

2724
01:34:32,149 --> 01:34:30,000
that as like a big

2725
01:34:33,750 --> 01:34:32,159
chat room you have all these individual

2726
01:34:35,750 --> 01:34:33,760
units of consciousness and what

2727
01:34:38,229 --> 01:34:35,760
consciousness does is it communicates

2728
01:34:39,669 --> 01:34:38,239
and makes choices that's what

2729
01:34:41,189 --> 01:34:39,679
consciousness does so it's interesting

2730
01:34:42,629 --> 01:34:41,199
that related to os or is that's

2731
01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:42,639
completely different than os

2732
01:34:49,030 --> 01:34:46,000
no that is that's really

2733
01:34:51,669 --> 01:34:49,040
before os that's

2734
01:34:53,510 --> 01:34:51,679
prior to os is there an acronym that

2735
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,520
you've said in the book

2736
01:34:56,629 --> 01:34:55,440
about the consciousness is interacting

2737
01:34:57,270 --> 01:34:56,639
with one another because everything

2738
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:57,280
you're saying

2739
01:35:00,950 --> 01:34:59,600
remember tom i've been listening to your

2740
01:35:02,390 --> 01:35:00,960
voice for two months

2741
01:35:03,590 --> 01:35:02,400
okay so everything you're saying i'm

2742
01:35:04,070 --> 01:35:03,600
trying to relate it back to what i've

2743
01:35:06,149 --> 01:35:04,080
learned

2744
01:35:07,350 --> 01:35:06,159
yeah uh if this is actually what you

2745
01:35:10,550 --> 01:35:07,360
said this would be

2746
01:35:16,870 --> 01:35:10,560
as we as we move from

2747
01:35:20,390 --> 01:35:19,189
it's in that transition okay so auo just

2748
01:35:23,510 --> 01:35:20,400
for the people listening

2749
01:35:26,550 --> 01:35:23,520
is and then awoom is oh please

2750
01:35:28,709 --> 01:35:26,560
okay quick aside yeah um

2751
01:35:29,990 --> 01:35:28,719
is um i don't know it's gonna be hard

2752
01:35:36,550 --> 01:35:30,000
for me to come up with these too

2753
01:35:40,470 --> 01:35:38,709
i don't know i'd have to look them up i

2754
01:35:42,790 --> 01:35:40,480
wrote that book

2755
01:35:44,470 --> 01:35:42,800
what 20 absolute unbounded oneness was

2756
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:44,480
one yeah absolute bounded

2757
01:35:51,350 --> 01:35:47,520
oneness that's a um oh no

2758
01:35:54,229 --> 01:35:51,360
that's auo right absolute you unbounded

2759
01:35:55,189 --> 01:35:54,239
oneness okay and and then what's

2760
01:35:59,430 --> 01:35:55,199
absolutely and

2761
01:36:01,189 --> 01:35:59,440
something manifold all right a-u-m

2762
01:36:03,350 --> 01:36:01,199
don't worry i can cut this out if we can

2763
01:36:04,870 --> 01:36:03,360
if we can i don't know

2764
01:36:06,629 --> 01:36:04,880
i don't remember a long time i don't use

2765
01:36:09,109 --> 01:36:06,639
those terms anymore usually i use

2766
01:36:12,310 --> 01:36:09,119
lcs for a larger consciousness system

2767
01:36:14,709 --> 01:36:12,320
which is kind of the aum

2768
01:36:16,390 --> 01:36:14,719
aum that i ended up with just becomes a

2769
01:36:16,870 --> 01:36:16,400
larger conscious system and i used that

2770
01:36:18,550 --> 01:36:16,880
term

2771
01:36:21,030 --> 01:36:18,560
for so long that i haven't used those

2772
01:36:22,470 --> 01:36:21,040
acronyms for probably 15 years

2773
01:36:24,870 --> 01:36:22,480
and you know how acronyms are if you

2774
01:36:27,590 --> 01:36:24,880
don't use them for a long period of time

2775
01:36:29,910 --> 01:36:27,600
they disappear but anyway it was in the

2776
01:36:32,950 --> 01:36:29,920
process that consciousness

2777
01:36:36,229 --> 01:36:32,960
evolved from a monolithic thing

2778
01:36:38,229 --> 01:36:36,239
a consciousness to multiple

2779
01:36:40,229 --> 01:36:38,239
consciousnesses and it did that because

2780
01:36:43,149 --> 01:36:40,239
that was on its path to

2781
01:36:45,109 --> 01:36:43,159
decreasing its entropy there's more

2782
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:45,119
possibilities

2783
01:36:48,470 --> 01:36:47,119
okay there's more structure there's more

2784
01:36:52,229 --> 01:36:48,480
things that you can be

2785
01:36:54,790 --> 01:36:52,239
if you're a set of of uh

2786
01:36:56,070 --> 01:36:54,800
individuated consciousnesses that can

2787
01:36:58,470 --> 01:36:56,080
interact with free will

2788
01:36:59,830 --> 01:36:58,480
now the possibilities go up whereas if

2789
01:37:00,950 --> 01:36:59,840
you just have one monolithic

2790
01:37:02,629 --> 01:37:00,960
consciousness

2791
01:37:04,629 --> 01:37:02,639
there's only so much you can do because

2792
01:37:07,189 --> 01:37:04,639
you're limited by your beliefs by your

2793
01:37:10,070 --> 01:37:07,199
attitudes by other things

2794
01:37:11,669 --> 01:37:10,080
so that's a you know cells did the same

2795
01:37:12,950 --> 01:37:11,679
thing you had single cell things and

2796
01:37:14,310 --> 01:37:12,960
these single celled things were very

2797
01:37:15,830 --> 01:37:14,320
limited there's only so much that you

2798
01:37:17,990 --> 01:37:15,840
can do with single sales

2799
01:37:18,870 --> 01:37:18,000
but if you get multiple sales working

2800
01:37:22,149 --> 01:37:18,880
together

2801
01:37:25,030 --> 01:37:22,159
now you can make something more complex

2802
01:37:26,149 --> 01:37:25,040
more ordered lower entropy and then you

2803
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:26,159
can get

2804
01:37:29,910 --> 01:37:28,320
you know organizations of cells like our

2805
01:37:31,430 --> 01:37:29,920
body you know we have livers and hearts

2806
01:37:34,629 --> 01:37:31,440
and organs and things where

2807
01:37:37,030 --> 01:37:34,639
specialization of of sales

2808
01:37:37,990 --> 01:37:37,040
and now it's even more complex more

2809
01:37:40,229 --> 01:37:38,000
flexible

2810
01:37:41,350 --> 01:37:40,239
more capable of doing more things

2811
01:37:44,310 --> 01:37:41,360
because of the

2812
01:37:45,430 --> 01:37:44,320
because of that additional order that

2813
01:37:46,950 --> 01:37:45,440
you have and it's not just

2814
01:37:48,310 --> 01:37:46,960
random order it's order that's

2815
01:37:49,830 --> 01:37:48,320
meaningful that works together that

2816
01:37:52,070 --> 01:37:49,840
cooperates

2817
01:37:53,830 --> 01:37:52,080
you know with each other so it's the

2818
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:53,840
same thing consciousness had to find

2819
01:37:56,229 --> 01:37:55,600
that same thing it was one monolithic

2820
01:37:58,629 --> 01:37:56,239
thing

2821
01:38:00,470 --> 01:37:58,639
and it decided that that was limiting it

2822
01:38:03,350 --> 01:38:00,480
couldn't lower its entropy

2823
01:38:05,109 --> 01:38:03,360
very quickly that way so it created

2824
01:38:07,270 --> 01:38:05,119
subsets of itself

2825
01:38:09,270 --> 01:38:07,280
and those subsets then each had free

2826
01:38:12,870 --> 01:38:09,280
will and they interact with each other

2827
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:12,880
and now the pr the potential

2828
01:38:17,510 --> 01:38:15,840
of the whole system goes up it's bigger

2829
01:38:18,870 --> 01:38:17,520
entropy is lowered you have a more

2830
01:38:22,149 --> 01:38:18,880
complex

2831
01:38:23,750 --> 01:38:22,159
ordering of things so now you have these

2832
01:38:25,830 --> 01:38:23,760
individuals but all they are is like in

2833
01:38:28,229 --> 01:38:25,840
a big chat room they communicate

2834
01:38:29,510 --> 01:38:28,239
and they make choices okay they have

2835
01:38:31,189 --> 01:38:29,520
potential

2836
01:38:32,629 --> 01:38:31,199
but they're not growing very quickly

2837
01:38:34,390 --> 01:38:32,639
either because

2838
01:38:37,030 --> 01:38:34,400
why does entropy increase when there's

2839
01:38:39,030 --> 01:38:37,040
more potential no entropy decreases

2840
01:38:40,550 --> 01:38:39,040
i'm sorry did i say no sorry why does no

2841
01:38:42,149 --> 01:38:40,560
what i misspoke

2842
01:38:44,470 --> 01:38:42,159
why does entropy decrease and not

2843
01:38:45,109 --> 01:38:44,480
increase when this entropy decreases

2844
01:38:48,149 --> 01:38:45,119
because

2845
01:38:51,189 --> 01:38:48,159
you have there's more things you can do

2846
01:38:53,990 --> 01:38:51,199
one measure of entropy is that

2847
01:38:55,109 --> 01:38:54,000
is disorder okay that's one measure of

2848
01:39:04,470 --> 01:38:55,119
entropy

2849
01:39:07,669 --> 01:39:04,480
system to do work

2850
01:39:09,510 --> 01:39:07,679
to do things those are both different

2851
01:39:11,590 --> 01:39:09,520
but equivalent

2852
01:39:12,629 --> 01:39:11,600
ways of looking at entropy so if we look

2853
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:12,639
at it as just

2854
01:39:17,750 --> 01:39:15,679
order then you have more order

2855
01:39:18,790 --> 01:39:17,760
if you have a more highly evolved

2856
01:39:20,709 --> 01:39:18,800
structure

2857
01:39:22,629 --> 01:39:20,719
okay and you have more ability to do

2858
01:39:25,109 --> 01:39:22,639
things more potential

2859
01:39:26,790 --> 01:39:25,119
more more work that you can do if you

2860
01:39:27,590 --> 01:39:26,800
have interactions of things rather than

2861
01:39:30,310 --> 01:39:27,600
just one

2862
01:39:31,430 --> 01:39:30,320
monolithic thing these interactions can

2863
01:39:37,030 --> 01:39:31,440
can

2864
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:37,040
build things whereas this one thing

2865
01:39:40,149 --> 01:39:38,239
doesn't

2866
01:39:42,550 --> 01:39:40,159
it's the same thing with one single cell

2867
01:39:44,310 --> 01:39:42,560
multiple cell

2868
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:44,320
i can probably show you where my

2869
01:39:47,189 --> 01:39:46,000
confusion lies if i write it

2870
01:39:49,350 --> 01:39:47,199
and then you could just point it out it

2871
01:39:52,229 --> 01:39:49,360
might be simple like oh you're mistaking

2872
01:39:59,910 --> 01:39:55,669
please because you're just like me

2873
01:40:03,350 --> 01:39:59,920
and that you are primarily a physicist

2874
01:40:05,510 --> 01:40:03,360
okay so if we look here this is

2875
01:40:07,669 --> 01:40:05,520
sorry if there's a double speak because

2876
01:40:10,070 --> 01:40:07,679
for whatever reason my cell phone has to

2877
01:40:10,870 --> 01:40:10,080
reply i don't hear it i just you're

2878
01:40:14,229 --> 01:40:10,880
single

2879
01:40:16,870 --> 01:40:14,239
okay entropy

2880
01:40:17,910 --> 01:40:16,880
is something like k d that's a boltzmann

2881
01:40:21,350 --> 01:40:17,920
constant

2882
01:40:25,590 --> 01:40:21,360
lawn and then this guy is

2883
01:40:28,070 --> 01:40:25,600
total number of states

2884
01:40:29,590 --> 01:40:28,080
okay so obviously i'm not saying

2885
01:40:30,629 --> 01:40:29,600
anything you don't know but obviously

2886
01:40:33,030 --> 01:40:30,639
this guy

2887
01:40:35,030 --> 01:40:33,040
looks like looks like this so then as

2888
01:40:36,790 --> 01:40:35,040
the total number of states goes up

2889
01:40:38,070 --> 01:40:36,800
entropy goes up that's why i'm having a

2890
01:40:41,109 --> 01:40:38,080
difficult time understanding

2891
01:40:43,669 --> 01:40:41,119
why is it when more is occurring entropy

2892
01:40:44,550 --> 01:40:43,679
decreases okay then let's look at it

2893
01:40:47,030 --> 01:40:44,560
this way

2894
01:40:48,149 --> 01:40:47,040
we started with all the bits in his

2895
01:40:51,270 --> 01:40:48,159
information system

2896
01:40:52,550 --> 01:40:51,280
random right we ordered the bits now we

2897
01:40:55,990 --> 01:40:52,560
have some meaning

2898
01:40:58,950 --> 01:40:56,000
now entropy goes down because we ordered

2899
01:41:01,030 --> 01:40:58,960
some bits we now have less randomness

2900
01:41:02,709 --> 01:41:01,040
so we order the bits we have a little

2901
01:41:03,590 --> 01:41:02,719
more complexity instead of all the bits

2902
01:41:05,189 --> 01:41:03,600
being random

2903
01:41:07,350 --> 01:41:05,199
we have ordered bits and those ordered

2904
01:41:09,510 --> 01:41:07,360
bits can be can mean things they could

2905
01:41:11,750 --> 01:41:09,520
be numbers or letters or they could

2906
01:41:12,629 --> 01:41:11,760
have some sort of meaning to them

2907
01:41:15,510 --> 01:41:12,639
they're symbols

2908
01:41:16,790 --> 01:41:15,520
they could be so when you order bits you

2909
01:41:19,109 --> 01:41:16,800
lower the entropy

2910
01:41:19,990 --> 01:41:19,119
high entropy is all the bits are random

2911
01:41:22,950 --> 01:41:20,000
so by

2912
01:41:24,070 --> 01:41:22,960
making a system more complicated more

2913
01:41:26,229 --> 01:41:24,080
complex

2914
01:41:27,750 --> 01:41:26,239
more meaningful more significant it can

2915
01:41:30,950 --> 01:41:27,760
do more things

2916
01:41:32,229 --> 01:41:30,960
you are you're looking at entropy as it

2917
01:41:35,350 --> 01:41:32,239
is defined

2918
01:41:37,750 --> 01:41:35,360
for heat problems

2919
01:41:39,189 --> 01:41:37,760
you're looking at thermodynamics there

2920
01:41:41,350 --> 01:41:39,199
but they're equivalent definitions

2921
01:41:43,270 --> 01:41:41,360
yeah you have to think of entropy in a

2922
01:41:45,109 --> 01:41:43,280
very fundamental way

2923
01:41:46,470 --> 01:41:45,119
okay fundamentally it's a measure of

2924
01:41:49,990 --> 01:41:46,480
disorder

2925
01:41:52,950 --> 01:41:50,000
okay so if you create order entropy gets

2926
01:41:53,590 --> 01:41:52,960
lowered so think of it in fundamental

2927
01:41:55,189 --> 01:41:53,600
terms don't

2928
01:41:57,109 --> 01:41:55,199
don't get lost in that equation that

2929
01:41:58,709 --> 01:41:57,119
equation was written for a very specific

2930
01:42:01,830 --> 01:41:58,719
purpose that had to do with

2931
01:42:03,030 --> 01:42:01,840
with entropy probably in um i don't know

2932
01:42:05,669 --> 01:42:03,040
what uh

2933
01:42:11,669 --> 01:42:05,679
adiabatic transfer of heat between

2934
01:42:17,430 --> 01:42:15,189
so but but these two are equivalent

2935
01:42:18,950 --> 01:42:17,440
and then and obviously there's another

2936
01:42:21,189 --> 01:42:18,960
one that has to do with probability

2937
01:42:22,709 --> 01:42:21,199
but but they're all equivalent all the

2938
01:42:24,390 --> 01:42:22,719
different definitions of entropy

2939
01:42:26,830 --> 01:42:24,400
so when people say entropy measures

2940
01:42:29,270 --> 01:42:26,840
disorder

2941
01:42:31,350 --> 01:42:29,280
i it

2942
01:42:32,390 --> 01:42:31,360
well it technically measures the amount

2943
01:42:34,870 --> 01:42:32,400
of microstates

2944
01:42:36,950 --> 01:42:34,880
as you put heat into it you get more

2945
01:42:38,390 --> 01:42:36,960
disorder because everything is spinning

2946
01:42:41,270 --> 01:42:38,400
around more randomly right you're

2947
01:42:43,910 --> 01:42:41,280
randomizing the the molecules in the jar

2948
01:42:45,910 --> 01:42:43,920
right so you add heat and all the

2949
01:42:47,669 --> 01:42:45,920
molecules start zipping around

2950
01:42:49,750 --> 01:42:47,679
and then you take out heat and pretty

2951
01:42:50,709 --> 01:42:49,760
soon you get you take out enough heat to

2952
01:42:52,550 --> 01:42:50,719
get ice

2953
01:42:55,669 --> 01:42:52,560
now your molecules aren't zipping around

2954
01:42:58,070 --> 01:42:55,679
anymore you've got more order

2955
01:42:59,830 --> 01:42:58,080
you've got when we're talking about npr

2956
01:43:03,030 --> 01:42:59,840
i remember you said that

2957
01:43:05,510 --> 01:43:03,040
if what we have here is something like

2958
01:43:07,350 --> 01:43:05,520
this is physical matter reality right

2959
01:43:07,990 --> 01:43:07,360
physical matter reality it's some subset

2960
01:43:10,390 --> 01:43:08,000
of npr

2961
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:10,400
let me know if this is too small yeah i

2962
01:43:13,189 --> 01:43:11,280
can see it

2963
01:43:13,900 --> 01:43:13,199
okay great it's pretty small but i can i

2964
01:43:15,270 --> 01:43:13,910
can see it

2965
01:43:18,310 --> 01:43:15,280
[Music]

2966
01:43:20,629 --> 01:43:18,320
look looks like n p m

2967
01:43:22,149 --> 01:43:20,639
r looks like this it's just i'm trying

2968
01:43:23,669 --> 01:43:22,159
to clarify please because

2969
01:43:25,189 --> 01:43:23,679
i have some questions about npr

2970
01:43:27,189 --> 01:43:25,199
afterwards and how to interact with it

2971
01:43:27,669 --> 01:43:27,199
and do you see it as if it's in front of

2972
01:43:29,510 --> 01:43:27,679
you like

2973
01:43:31,030 --> 01:43:29,520
like me and you are talking and and how

2974
01:43:33,030 --> 01:43:31,040
does one go about doing that

2975
01:43:34,229 --> 01:43:33,040
all good questions great great great

2976
01:43:37,189 --> 01:43:34,239
okay so we have npr

2977
01:43:38,470 --> 01:43:37,199
npmr and then we also have pmr i'll just

2978
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:38,480
write that here

2979
01:43:45,030 --> 01:43:41,600
yeah okay okay and the claim is that

2980
01:43:48,470 --> 01:43:45,040
pmr is a subset of npm yeah right now

2981
01:43:53,030 --> 01:43:48,480
can npmr interact over here like

2982
01:43:55,030 --> 01:43:53,040
they're causally influenced within npmr

2983
01:43:57,830 --> 01:43:55,040
something can causally influence another

2984
01:44:01,830 --> 01:43:57,840
part of npmr

2985
01:44:02,870 --> 01:44:01,840
um or or only do you have to go to a

2986
01:44:06,470 --> 01:44:02,880
higher

2987
01:44:09,990 --> 01:44:06,480
np mr let's say

2988
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:10,000
two this is npm r1 and only this guy can

2989
01:44:13,750 --> 01:44:10,960
influence here

2990
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:13,760
no the things can be influenced within

2991
01:44:17,590 --> 01:44:15,840
within that npmr things can happen

2992
01:44:19,030 --> 01:44:17,600
decisions can be made choices can be

2993
01:44:22,229 --> 01:44:19,040
done that affect things

2994
01:44:24,790 --> 01:44:22,239
yes okay because then

2995
01:44:27,030 --> 01:44:24,800
like i'm overly done-ish so doesn't that

2996
01:44:28,229 --> 01:44:27,040
indicate that pmr is not a subset but

2997
01:44:31,189 --> 01:44:28,239
instead more like a

2998
01:44:32,310 --> 01:44:31,199
a target on a domain so here is npmr and

2999
01:44:34,550 --> 01:44:32,320
i'll tell you the reason why

3000
01:44:36,950 --> 01:44:34,560
and please forgive me if this is too

3001
01:44:39,910 --> 01:44:36,960
foolishly technical for no reason

3002
01:44:42,149 --> 01:44:39,920
but it's like there's a function let's

3003
01:44:44,310 --> 01:44:42,159
call it f and the domain is npmr

3004
01:44:47,109 --> 01:44:44,320
and then it goes to pmr and the reason

3005
01:44:50,149 --> 01:44:47,119
why i say these are separate

3006
01:44:51,189 --> 01:44:50,159
is because pmr can't influence you said

3007
01:44:54,629 --> 01:44:51,199
that you have to go out

3008
01:44:58,790 --> 01:44:54,639
only npmr can influence this guy

3009
01:45:00,149 --> 01:44:58,800
correct um can pmr influence without

3010
01:45:03,270 --> 01:45:00,159
npmr

3011
01:45:05,590 --> 01:45:03,280
no pmr is uh is a product

3012
01:45:06,550 --> 01:45:05,600
it's created by npmr yeah yeah right

3013
01:45:08,709 --> 01:45:06,560
right so then

3014
01:45:10,390 --> 01:45:08,719
the reason why i was having a bit of a

3015
01:45:11,030 --> 01:45:10,400
tricky time understanding this is

3016
01:45:14,070 --> 01:45:11,040
because if

3017
01:45:15,590 --> 01:45:14,080
pmr was simply a subset right here

3018
01:45:17,510 --> 01:45:15,600
it should be able to influence within

3019
01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:17,520
itself just like npmr can influence

3020
01:45:20,950 --> 01:45:19,440
within itself because it's a subset

3021
01:45:23,109 --> 01:45:20,960
unless there's something special about

3022
01:45:24,550 --> 01:45:23,119
this upset well well pmr does influence

3023
01:45:26,149 --> 01:45:24,560
within itself you know i mean we make

3024
01:45:29,030 --> 01:45:26,159
choices

3025
01:45:30,070 --> 01:45:29,040
come here and have this talk you know

3026
01:45:32,229 --> 01:45:30,080
and that that may change

3027
01:45:34,390 --> 01:45:32,239
things you know now did that choice

3028
01:45:37,990 --> 01:45:34,400
occur in npmr or in pmr

3029
01:45:41,350 --> 01:45:38,000
oh at all all the your consciousness

3030
01:45:43,189 --> 01:45:41,360
is in npmr consciousness is not physical

3031
01:45:45,750 --> 01:45:43,199
consciousness is non-physical

3032
01:45:48,229 --> 01:45:45,760
information is non-physical

3033
01:45:49,750 --> 01:45:48,239
you are a non-physical consciousness

3034
01:45:54,870 --> 01:45:49,760
you're just playing

3035
01:45:59,030 --> 01:45:56,390
but the problem you're having is that

3036
01:46:02,070 --> 01:45:59,040
these concepts are so

3037
01:46:05,350 --> 01:46:02,080
different from the basic world view

3038
01:46:07,030 --> 01:46:05,360
and and concepts that you know that most

3039
01:46:08,790 --> 01:46:07,040
people have particularly

3040
01:46:11,109 --> 01:46:08,800
technical people particularly physics

3041
01:46:11,430 --> 01:46:11,119
and science people that it just seems to

3042
01:46:13,830 --> 01:46:11,440
be

3043
01:46:14,550 --> 01:46:13,840
really hard to get your mind wrapped

3044
01:46:17,590 --> 01:46:14,560
around them

3045
01:46:19,590 --> 01:46:17,600
and and all the little problems that

3046
01:46:21,350 --> 01:46:19,600
pop up will disappear just once you get

3047
01:46:24,830 --> 01:46:21,360
that basic concept that we

3048
01:46:25,990 --> 01:46:24,840
are consciousness we are playing a

3049
01:46:27,750 --> 01:46:26,000
character

3050
01:46:29,430 --> 01:46:27,760
just like you would play an elf in world

3051
01:46:30,629 --> 01:46:29,440
of warcraft you're playing a character

3052
01:46:33,910 --> 01:46:30,639
that character

3053
01:46:36,550 --> 01:46:33,920
is your physical body that's the avatar

3054
01:46:37,430 --> 01:46:36,560
your consciousness now from that

3055
01:46:42,870 --> 01:46:37,440
avatar's

3056
01:46:44,310 --> 01:46:42,880
viewpoint the player is non-physical

3057
01:46:46,229 --> 01:46:44,320
and yeah i see you i see you're just

3058
01:46:48,229 --> 01:46:46,239
like just like a video game

3059
01:46:50,390 --> 01:46:48,239
and the computer is non-physical it is a

3060
01:46:51,669 --> 01:46:50,400
video game right it's a virtual reality

3061
01:46:54,430 --> 01:46:51,679
a video game

3062
01:46:56,229 --> 01:46:54,440
so you're the consciousness you are

3063
01:46:58,149 --> 01:46:56,239
non-physical

3064
01:47:00,470 --> 01:46:58,159
relative to the viewpoint inside of the

3065
01:47:02,390 --> 01:47:00,480
virtual reality which is your body

3066
01:47:04,550 --> 01:47:02,400
so your consciousness is a non-physical

3067
01:47:06,070 --> 01:47:04,560
thing but it's really who you are that

3068
01:47:07,830 --> 01:47:06,080
consciousness is a player

3069
01:47:09,350 --> 01:47:07,840
that consciousness is making all the

3070
01:47:11,669 --> 01:47:09,360
choices for that

3071
01:47:13,350 --> 01:47:11,679
avatar if the conscience doesn't give

3072
01:47:14,870 --> 01:47:13,360
that avatar it doesn't make any choices

3073
01:47:15,430 --> 01:47:14,880
the avatar just sits there i mean think

3074
01:47:17,270 --> 01:47:15,440
of your

3075
01:47:18,790 --> 01:47:17,280
your elf that you're playing if you

3076
01:47:20,709 --> 01:47:18,800
don't if you don't

3077
01:47:22,229 --> 01:47:20,719
you know hit a key or move a mouse you

3078
01:47:23,510 --> 01:47:22,239
don't give it any instructions it just

3079
01:47:24,390 --> 01:47:23,520
sits there and wobbles doesn't do

3080
01:47:28,149 --> 01:47:24,400
anything

3081
01:47:31,750 --> 01:47:28,159
well so all the choices all the memory

3082
01:47:33,590 --> 01:47:31,760
all the thoughts all the

3083
01:47:35,590 --> 01:47:33,600
all the processing goes on in

3084
01:47:38,790 --> 01:47:35,600
consciousness not in the brain

3085
01:47:43,189 --> 01:47:38,800
there really is no brain the

3086
01:47:45,270 --> 01:47:43,199
the brain is is not even rendered

3087
01:47:46,470 --> 01:47:45,280
unless somebody is opens a skull and has

3088
01:47:49,270 --> 01:47:46,480
to look at it

3089
01:47:49,990 --> 01:47:49,280
it's just a virtual reality right you

3090
01:47:52,790 --> 01:47:50,000
see yourself

3091
01:47:54,629 --> 01:47:52,800
as consciousness and you make all the

3092
01:47:56,709 --> 01:47:54,639
decisions you're making all the choices

3093
01:47:58,790 --> 01:47:56,719
and you are not in that virtual reality

3094
01:48:02,070 --> 01:47:58,800
so you are an npmr

3095
01:48:03,430 --> 01:48:02,080
you're non-physical to that that that

3096
01:48:04,709 --> 01:48:03,440
physical matter reality it's just a

3097
01:48:06,149 --> 01:48:04,719
virtual reality just like world of

3098
01:48:08,870 --> 01:48:06,159
warcraft it's a game

3099
01:48:10,149 --> 01:48:08,880
it's an energy reduction trainer what

3100
01:48:12,390 --> 01:48:10,159
happens

3101
01:48:14,390 --> 01:48:12,400
when there's brain damage which seems to

3102
01:48:16,709 --> 01:48:14,400
occur in physical matter reality

3103
01:48:18,070 --> 01:48:16,719
and exactly when there's brain damage

3104
01:48:21,350 --> 01:48:18,080
what happens is according

3105
01:48:22,870 --> 01:48:21,360
remember this virtual reality evolved

3106
01:48:25,750 --> 01:48:22,880
according to a rule set

3107
01:48:26,470 --> 01:48:25,760
right it's an evolved thing all right so

3108
01:48:29,030 --> 01:48:26,480
the way

3109
01:48:30,390 --> 01:48:29,040
the stuff is in that virtual reality is

3110
01:48:32,629 --> 01:48:30,400
because of the rule set

3111
01:48:33,830 --> 01:48:32,639
you know the rule set says that we can't

3112
01:48:35,990 --> 01:48:33,840
flap our arms and fly

3113
01:48:38,310 --> 01:48:36,000
so we can't do that it's the physics

3114
01:48:41,030 --> 01:48:38,320
chemistry biology that's the rule set

3115
01:48:42,310 --> 01:48:41,040
all right so now here you are and your

3116
01:48:44,709 --> 01:48:42,320
at your

3117
01:48:46,550 --> 01:48:44,719
avatar gets brain damage somebody hits

3118
01:48:48,950 --> 01:48:46,560
them in the head with an iron pipe

3119
01:48:51,109 --> 01:48:48,960
now the rule set says that that's going

3120
01:48:52,629 --> 01:48:51,119
to change the constraints on what that

3121
01:48:55,189 --> 01:48:52,639
system can do

3122
01:48:57,510 --> 01:48:55,199
same with your elf if your elf that

3123
01:48:59,830 --> 01:48:57,520
you're playing in world of warcraft

3124
01:49:01,430 --> 01:48:59,840
falls off a high cliff and hits the

3125
01:49:03,510 --> 01:49:01,440
rocks at the bottom

3126
01:49:05,030 --> 01:49:03,520
it's going to be damaged it's going to

3127
01:49:07,189 --> 01:49:05,040
lose hit points

3128
01:49:08,790 --> 01:49:07,199
it's going to have to you know go

3129
01:49:11,669 --> 01:49:08,800
someplace and rest or

3130
01:49:14,870 --> 01:49:11,679
eat or do something else it damages it

3131
01:49:17,589 --> 01:49:14,880
and now the player has to play with a

3132
01:49:18,550 --> 01:49:17,599
with constraints so you have brain

3133
01:49:20,550 --> 01:49:18,560
damage

3134
01:49:22,550 --> 01:49:20,560
you're the consciousness you now have to

3135
01:49:25,350 --> 01:49:22,560
play an avatar that has straight

3136
01:49:25,669 --> 01:49:25,360
constraints according to the rule set

3137
01:49:27,350 --> 01:49:25,679
okay

3138
01:49:28,950 --> 01:49:27,360
ruleset tells you what the constraints

3139
01:49:31,750 --> 01:49:28,960
are okay

3140
01:49:33,510 --> 01:49:31,760
so let's say i'm going to disembody this

3141
01:49:35,430 --> 01:49:33,520
and make some sort of visual metaphor

3142
01:49:36,870 --> 01:49:35,440
okay so your consciousness is up here

3143
01:49:38,870 --> 01:49:36,880
and somehow it's tapping into a video

3144
01:49:39,510 --> 01:49:38,880
game that's down here and it's playing

3145
01:49:42,709 --> 01:49:39,520
and

3146
01:49:45,109 --> 01:49:42,719
this is just like

3147
01:49:46,629 --> 01:49:45,119
now these two have a fight down here and

3148
01:49:48,470 --> 01:49:46,639
one of them is represented by you maybe

3149
01:49:51,830 --> 01:49:48,480
one is represented by someone else

3150
01:49:54,149 --> 01:49:51,840
okay that somehow affects what this guy

3151
01:49:55,990 --> 01:49:54,159
feels because the rule set says what

3152
01:49:57,750 --> 01:49:56,000
happens down here affects how you feel

3153
01:49:59,109 --> 01:49:57,760
am i correct so far is this or is this

3154
01:50:01,189 --> 01:49:59,119
off no

3155
01:50:02,550 --> 01:50:01,199
yeah the all the feelings are in the

3156
01:50:05,990 --> 01:50:02,560
consciousness

3157
01:50:07,430 --> 01:50:06,000
exactly now what makes you what makes

3158
01:50:09,910 --> 01:50:07,440
this consciousness

3159
01:50:10,709 --> 01:50:09,920
you because the way that i'm

3160
01:50:12,390 --> 01:50:10,719
understanding

3161
01:50:13,830 --> 01:50:12,400
an identity which is such a slippery

3162
01:50:15,270 --> 01:50:13,840
concept if you just

3163
01:50:17,270 --> 01:50:15,280
if you examine it it's not a

3164
01:50:19,910 --> 01:50:17,280
well-defined concept to begin with

3165
01:50:20,629 --> 01:50:19,920
but let's imagine it is which is

3166
01:50:23,589 --> 01:50:20,639
difficult

3167
01:50:25,030 --> 01:50:23,599
but what defines you is something like

3168
01:50:27,589 --> 01:50:25,040
you have a personality you have a

3169
01:50:30,070 --> 01:50:27,599
certain viewpoint you have

3170
01:50:31,990 --> 01:50:30,080
you have your choices and so on but if

3171
01:50:34,070 --> 01:50:32,000
those can be affected by what's physical

3172
01:50:35,669 --> 01:50:34,080
what's pmr

3173
01:50:38,229 --> 01:50:35,679
right with v with brain damage or

3174
01:50:41,189 --> 01:50:38,239
augmentations then that's affecting the

3175
01:50:42,709 --> 01:50:41,199
you which is up here which i meant yeah

3176
01:50:45,589 --> 01:50:42,719
it's just constraining

3177
01:50:46,550 --> 01:50:45,599
you so you have let's say you have brain

3178
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:46,560
damage and now

3179
01:50:50,149 --> 01:50:49,440
you can't remember and you slur your

3180
01:50:52,709 --> 01:50:50,159
words

3181
01:50:54,149 --> 01:50:52,719
and you drag your left foot okay now

3182
01:50:55,350 --> 01:50:54,159
you're the consciousness

3183
01:50:57,669 --> 01:50:55,360
and i thought what's happened to your

3184
01:50:59,189 --> 01:50:57,679
avatar your avatar fell off a cliff and

3185
01:51:01,990 --> 01:50:59,199
hit his head on a rock

3186
01:51:03,109 --> 01:51:02,000
so now you have to play a character that

3187
01:51:05,990 --> 01:51:03,119
slurs its words

3188
01:51:07,109 --> 01:51:06,000
can't remember and whatever you you are

3189
01:51:09,270 --> 01:51:07,119
limited

3190
01:51:10,229 --> 01:51:09,280
by what the rule set says your avatar

3191
01:51:13,270 --> 01:51:10,239
can do

3192
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:13,280
so you have a computer remember the

3193
01:51:16,709 --> 01:51:14,960
computer is computing this

3194
01:51:18,709 --> 01:51:16,719
now you're getting a data stream from

3195
01:51:20,550 --> 01:51:18,719
that computer yeah

3196
01:51:22,870 --> 01:51:20,560
and you're interpreting that data as

3197
01:51:26,070 --> 01:51:22,880
what's going on in that virtual reality

3198
01:51:29,189 --> 01:51:26,080
so now the computer says that

3199
01:51:31,510 --> 01:51:29,199
you can't get up and dance because

3200
01:51:33,350 --> 01:51:31,520
you're dragging your left foot you can't

3201
01:51:34,470 --> 01:51:33,360
go give a speech because you're slurring

3202
01:51:36,149 --> 01:51:34,480
your words

3203
01:51:38,070 --> 01:51:36,159
so if you say well i'd like to go give a

3204
01:51:40,310 --> 01:51:38,080
speech now

3205
01:51:42,950 --> 01:51:40,320
you can't get that the computer isn't

3206
01:51:45,830 --> 01:51:42,960
going to draw that in that reality

3207
01:51:47,910 --> 01:51:45,840
because the rule set says no can't do

3208
01:51:49,510 --> 01:51:47,920
that just like if you're playing an elf

3209
01:51:50,229 --> 01:51:49,520
and you'd say oh my elf's in a tight

3210
01:51:52,790 --> 01:51:50,239
situation

3211
01:51:53,589 --> 01:51:52,800
elf flap your arms and fly and what'll

3212
01:51:56,310 --> 01:51:53,599
happen

3213
01:51:58,149 --> 01:51:56,320
nothing it won't do that because the

3214
01:52:00,870 --> 01:51:58,159
rule set in world of warcraft

3215
01:52:01,270 --> 01:52:00,880
won't let your elf flap his arms and fly

3216
01:52:07,669 --> 01:52:01,280
so

3217
01:52:10,229 --> 01:52:07,679
you know you have the constraints that

3218
01:52:11,669 --> 01:52:10,239
you have to work with as consciousness

3219
01:52:13,750 --> 01:52:11,679
now you're the consciousness you're

3220
01:52:14,709 --> 01:52:13,760
making the choices and you have all the

3221
01:52:16,629 --> 01:52:14,719
feelings part of

3222
01:52:18,790 --> 01:52:16,639
consciousness is the feeling part it's

3223
01:52:19,990 --> 01:52:18,800
the emotional part

3224
01:52:21,669 --> 01:52:20,000
so you're the one that feels the

3225
01:52:22,950 --> 01:52:21,679
emotions you're the one that feels the

3226
01:52:25,109 --> 01:52:22,960
pain you're the one that's

3227
01:52:26,629 --> 01:52:25,119
tongue feels too fat to get in your

3228
01:52:30,870 --> 01:52:26,639
mouth all that's part of

3229
01:52:33,189 --> 01:52:30,880
what you interpret the data to be

3230
01:52:35,030 --> 01:52:33,199
remember you are getting the data that

3231
01:52:37,990 --> 01:52:35,040
is all the sense data

3232
01:52:39,910 --> 01:52:38,000
that this avatar is getting okay so we

3233
01:52:41,510 --> 01:52:39,920
do world of warcraft it's just basically

3234
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:41,520
visual and sound

3235
01:52:45,430 --> 01:52:43,440
okay when you do this virtual reality

3236
01:52:46,310 --> 01:52:45,440
it's visual sound and feeling it's touch

3237
01:52:49,589 --> 01:52:46,320
it's smell

3238
01:52:50,310 --> 01:52:49,599
it's everything okay i guess here's my

3239
01:52:51,990 --> 01:52:50,320
confusion

3240
01:52:54,310 --> 01:52:52,000
and i think this metaphor somewhat

3241
01:52:55,750 --> 01:52:54,320
rectifies it in world of warcraft

3242
01:52:57,430 --> 01:52:55,760
let's just choose that in world of

3243
01:52:58,790 --> 01:52:57,440
warcraft you have an avatar and you have

3244
01:52:59,669 --> 01:52:58,800
hit points and so on you have a certain

3245
01:53:02,070 --> 01:52:59,679
set of attributes

3246
01:53:03,189 --> 01:53:02,080
okay then what you're saying is it would

3247
01:53:06,390 --> 01:53:03,199
be a mistake

3248
01:53:07,430 --> 01:53:06,400
to identify the you as the avatar rather

3249
01:53:10,790 --> 01:53:07,440
than the player

3250
01:53:13,270 --> 01:53:10,800
is that true absolutely so then

3251
01:53:14,310 --> 01:53:13,280
what's left of the individual once

3252
01:53:17,350 --> 01:53:14,320
you've scrapped

3253
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:17,360
the inclinations and the set of emotions

3254
01:53:22,229 --> 01:53:20,320
and the personality what's left why

3255
01:53:23,669 --> 01:53:22,239
would that be me why should i identify

3256
01:53:25,750 --> 01:53:23,679
with that

3257
01:53:27,189 --> 01:53:25,760
like i'm just being devil's advocate

3258
01:53:29,510 --> 01:53:27,199
well let me see if i

3259
01:53:31,270 --> 01:53:29,520
can answer your question this way so you

3260
01:53:33,430 --> 01:53:31,280
your your piece of consciousness

3261
01:53:34,310 --> 01:53:33,440
and you're going to log on to this this

3262
01:53:35,430 --> 01:53:34,320
avatar

3263
01:53:37,910 --> 01:53:35,440
and you're going to log on to that

3264
01:53:40,629 --> 01:53:37,920
avatar when that avatar is

3265
01:53:41,750 --> 01:53:40,639
very very young maybe even before it's

3266
01:53:43,350 --> 01:53:41,760
born

3267
01:53:45,189 --> 01:53:43,360
so you know it depends when there's

3268
01:53:47,109 --> 01:53:45,199
enough data coming in for you to

3269
01:53:48,470 --> 01:53:47,119
experience that's when you probably log

3270
01:53:52,950 --> 01:53:48,480
on

3271
01:53:54,950 --> 01:53:52,960
with any history

3272
01:53:56,310 --> 01:53:54,960
all of your intellectual part doesn't

3273
01:53:56,870 --> 01:53:56,320
come with you the only thing that comes

3274
01:53:59,750 --> 01:53:56,880
with you

3275
01:54:00,629 --> 01:53:59,760
is the quality you've earned the amount

3276
01:54:02,470 --> 01:54:00,639
of entropy

3277
01:54:04,390 --> 01:54:02,480
you know that that you've reduced up to

3278
01:54:05,270 --> 01:54:04,400
this point so i call that quality of

3279
01:54:07,109 --> 01:54:05,280
consciousness

3280
01:54:08,950 --> 01:54:07,119
that comes with you and now you're

3281
01:54:10,070 --> 01:54:08,960
logged on just as quality of conscience

3282
01:54:13,189 --> 01:54:10,080
is logged onto this

3283
01:54:15,830 --> 01:54:13,199
avatar and all of the

3284
01:54:18,070 --> 01:54:15,840
sense data that you begin to get maybe

3285
01:54:20,790 --> 01:54:18,080
in utero maybe being born maybe

3286
01:54:21,990 --> 01:54:20,800
right afterwards all that sense data you

3287
01:54:24,870 --> 01:54:22,000
define that

3288
01:54:26,709 --> 01:54:24,880
as you because that's the only

3289
01:54:29,750 --> 01:54:26,719
intellectual information

3290
01:54:31,669 --> 01:54:29,760
that you've gotten in other words that's

3291
01:54:33,669 --> 01:54:31,679
it you didn't come with any memory like

3292
01:54:35,189 --> 01:54:33,679
okay i'm really sitting in my computer

3293
01:54:36,070 --> 01:54:35,199
and it's time for lunch i'm going to put

3294
01:54:38,149 --> 01:54:36,080
this game on hold

3295
01:54:40,310 --> 01:54:38,159
and go have a sandwich it's not like

3296
01:54:43,589 --> 01:54:40,320
that you're a hundred percent

3297
01:54:47,750 --> 01:54:43,599
evolved in involved in that player

3298
01:54:49,830 --> 01:54:47,760
and everything that that avatar has done

3299
01:54:51,750 --> 01:54:49,840
you feel like you have done because the

3300
01:54:53,430 --> 01:54:51,760
only data you're getting defining

3301
01:54:54,390 --> 01:54:53,440
reality is the data the computer's

3302
01:54:58,950 --> 01:54:54,400
sending you

3303
01:55:01,189 --> 01:54:58,960
describing what that avatar is sensing

3304
01:55:03,510 --> 01:55:01,199
now you have the emotions you have the

3305
01:55:03,990 --> 01:55:03,520
feelings the avatar is just some eye

3306
01:55:06,950 --> 01:55:04,000
candy

3307
01:55:08,629 --> 01:55:06,960
for you to look at so that you can see

3308
01:55:11,830 --> 01:55:08,639
the interactions and see what's going

3309
01:55:15,189 --> 01:55:11,840
on it's it's how you interpret the game

3310
01:55:17,990 --> 01:55:15,199
map and the players so you get that data

3311
01:55:19,669 --> 01:55:18,000
that's the data you have that's how you

3312
01:55:22,870 --> 01:55:19,679
interpret it

3313
01:55:24,310 --> 01:55:22,880
infant you know you learn to tell the

3314
01:55:26,870 --> 01:55:24,320
difference between uh you know

3315
01:55:28,390 --> 01:55:26,880
a house and your mother you just learn

3316
01:55:29,589 --> 01:55:28,400
that through your experience

3317
01:55:31,430 --> 01:55:29,599
so here you are this piece of

3318
01:55:33,430 --> 01:55:31,440
consciousness and you learn the

3319
01:55:34,470 --> 01:55:33,440
difference between mom and an apple and

3320
01:55:36,390 --> 01:55:34,480
dad and the car

3321
01:55:37,830 --> 01:55:36,400
and all these things as you grow up you

3322
01:55:39,990 --> 01:55:37,840
start building

3323
01:55:41,350 --> 01:55:40,000
language and vocabulary and ideas and

3324
01:55:43,589 --> 01:55:41,360
beliefs and things

3325
01:55:44,790 --> 01:55:43,599
so that's your world as consciousness

3326
01:55:46,790 --> 01:55:44,800
it's not like

3327
01:55:48,470 --> 01:55:46,800
you have something else going on you've

3328
01:55:49,430 --> 01:55:48,480
just this piece of consciousness is

3329
01:55:53,270 --> 01:55:49,440
wholly

3330
01:55:53,750 --> 01:55:53,280
100 logged on and you didn't come with

3331
01:55:57,030 --> 01:55:53,760
any

3332
01:55:57,350 --> 01:55:57,040
intellectual part now in my model i call

3333
01:55:59,990 --> 01:55:57,360
that

3334
01:56:01,430 --> 01:56:00,000
a free will awareness unit it's a subset

3335
01:56:02,629 --> 01:56:01,440
of the individuated unit of

3336
01:56:04,470 --> 01:56:02,639
consciousness

3337
01:56:06,229 --> 01:56:04,480
so the individual unit of conscious just

3338
01:56:10,070 --> 01:56:06,239
takes a subset of itself

3339
01:56:13,510 --> 01:56:10,080
and just its quality and logs on to this

3340
01:56:16,790 --> 01:56:13,520
this uh this game yeah

3341
01:56:17,510 --> 01:56:16,800
to get the data for that character okay

3342
01:56:21,109 --> 01:56:17,520
so

3343
01:56:23,430 --> 01:56:21,119
unit of consciousness

3344
01:56:24,629 --> 01:56:23,440
who has logged on a piece of itself you

3345
01:56:27,189 --> 01:56:24,639
put a partition

3346
01:56:29,910 --> 01:56:27,199
down to that piece of itself and you log

3347
01:56:31,910 --> 01:56:29,920
that on to this virtual reality game

3348
01:56:33,830 --> 01:56:31,920
you see that's kind of that's the way

3349
01:56:36,149 --> 01:56:33,840
you should kind of look at the structure

3350
01:56:37,350 --> 01:56:36,159
so yes let me see if i can explain back

3351
01:56:38,550 --> 01:56:37,360
to you so you know if i actually

3352
01:56:41,189 --> 01:56:38,560
understand it

3353
01:56:42,550 --> 01:56:41,199
okay i'm just imagining some orb okay

3354
01:56:43,750 --> 01:56:42,560
that's just the way my visual systems

3355
01:56:46,070 --> 01:56:43,760
work okay so i'm imagining an

3356
01:56:47,910 --> 01:56:46,080
orb over a landscape and this landscape

3357
01:56:49,350 --> 01:56:47,920
the orb can

3358
01:56:51,109 --> 01:56:49,360
shoot out one of its tendrils and then

3359
01:56:51,750 --> 01:56:51,119
it's odd then that's the equivalent of

3360
01:56:53,189 --> 01:56:51,760
logging on

3361
01:56:54,629 --> 01:56:53,199
okay and the orb represents

3362
01:56:56,229 --> 01:56:54,639
consciousness the orb represents me in

3363
01:56:57,750 --> 01:56:56,239
some way but this orb right now

3364
01:56:59,669 --> 01:56:57,760
doesn't have feelings because it's not

3365
01:57:01,189 --> 01:56:59,679
logged on i don't know if that's

3366
01:57:02,629 --> 01:57:01,199
actually true but in my metaphor okay so

3367
01:57:05,350 --> 01:57:02,639
right now has no sense data

3368
01:57:06,149 --> 01:57:05,360
it somehow puts out an arm goes into

3369
01:57:08,070 --> 01:57:06,159
this little baby

3370
01:57:09,990 --> 01:57:08,080
little baby boy who has certain

3371
01:57:12,149 --> 01:57:10,000
proclivities and then grows up and it

3372
01:57:13,589 --> 01:57:12,159
and it's fed that to its consciousness

3373
01:57:16,790 --> 01:57:13,599
that orb okay

3374
01:57:18,470 --> 01:57:16,800
then when this boy dies

3375
01:57:21,189 --> 01:57:18,480
in the physical world the body dies

3376
01:57:22,950 --> 01:57:21,199
let's say is the claim that the orb

3377
01:57:24,790 --> 01:57:22,960
persists and also that the orb was there

3378
01:57:26,629 --> 01:57:24,800
before the baby was born

3379
01:57:27,830 --> 01:57:26,639
or is it that the orb was created with

3380
01:57:30,550 --> 01:57:27,840
the baby somehow

3381
01:57:32,149 --> 01:57:30,560
okay it's it's all of the above it's a

3382
01:57:33,990 --> 01:57:32,159
little confusing but let me

3383
01:57:35,510 --> 01:57:34,000
try to lay it out for you yeah just

3384
01:57:38,550 --> 01:57:35,520
correct me where i'm okay

3385
01:57:41,109 --> 01:57:38,560
somewhat insensitive so we start with a

3386
01:57:42,149 --> 01:57:41,119
individuated unit of consciousness okay

3387
01:57:44,470 --> 01:57:42,159
and that's really

3388
01:57:45,270 --> 01:57:44,480
who you are you're a piece of conscious

3389
01:57:46,790 --> 01:57:45,280
you just

3390
01:57:48,310 --> 01:57:46,800
you know think of it as this big

3391
01:57:51,030 --> 01:57:48,320
conscious system

3392
01:57:51,830 --> 01:57:51,040
and it just takes a part of itself and

3393
01:57:55,109 --> 01:57:51,840
petitions that

3394
01:57:57,189 --> 01:57:55,119
often calls it you yeah okay that's

3395
01:57:58,390 --> 01:57:57,199
an iuoc it's just a piece of itself so

3396
01:58:01,669 --> 01:57:58,400
you can think of a

3397
01:58:04,229 --> 01:58:01,679
of an emulated uh you know

3398
01:58:04,950 --> 01:58:04,239
piece of this larger system so you're

3399
01:58:07,189 --> 01:58:04,960
just

3400
01:58:08,550 --> 01:58:07,199
a piece of the larger system and all

3401
01:58:09,589 --> 01:58:08,560
right so now that's you you're the

3402
01:58:12,390 --> 01:58:09,599
consciousness

3403
01:58:13,350 --> 01:58:12,400
okay now he finds out that you can

3404
01:58:16,470 --> 01:58:13,360
evolve

3405
01:58:18,070 --> 01:58:16,480
more readily if you log on to this game

3406
01:58:19,350 --> 01:58:18,080
because this is an entry reduction

3407
01:58:20,629 --> 01:58:19,360
trainer and what you're trying to do is

3408
01:58:22,709 --> 01:58:20,639
reduce your entropy

3409
01:58:23,750 --> 01:58:22,719
okay so because of that you take a piece

3410
01:58:25,990 --> 01:58:23,760
of yourself

3411
01:58:28,070 --> 01:58:26,000
now you partition off just a piece of

3412
01:58:30,470 --> 01:58:28,080
yourself that contains

3413
01:58:31,669 --> 01:58:30,480
your quality of consciousness and that

3414
01:58:34,790 --> 01:58:31,679
piece of yourself

3415
01:58:35,750 --> 01:58:34,800
now is the thing that's receiving the

3416
01:58:37,510 --> 01:58:35,760
data stream

3417
01:58:39,030 --> 01:58:37,520
and is logged onto the game and is

3418
01:58:41,669 --> 01:58:39,040
working the game

3419
01:58:42,709 --> 01:58:41,679
okay so it has an avatar and it's

3420
01:58:44,470 --> 01:58:42,719
experiencing

3421
01:58:46,310 --> 01:58:44,480
it's just a piece of myself though just

3422
01:58:47,910 --> 01:58:46,320
a piece of yourself

3423
01:58:49,910 --> 01:58:47,920
what are the other pieces doing in in

3424
01:58:52,470 --> 01:58:49,920
this example the other piece

3425
01:58:53,750 --> 01:58:52,480
is is basically going to be the

3426
01:58:56,229 --> 01:58:53,760
accumulation

3427
01:58:57,189 --> 01:58:56,239
function of all of your experiences

3428
01:59:00,310 --> 01:58:57,199
because the whole point

3429
01:59:04,629 --> 01:59:00,320
is to is to evolve and to do that

3430
01:59:06,950 --> 01:59:04,639
is as a as a iterative process

3431
01:59:07,990 --> 01:59:06,960
all of my experiences from past lives or

3432
01:59:10,310 --> 01:59:08,000
all of my lives

3433
01:59:12,070 --> 01:59:10,320
all of your experience from all of the

3434
01:59:13,669 --> 01:59:12,080
from all the avatars you've ever played

3435
01:59:16,790 --> 01:59:13,679
all the choices that you've ever made

3436
01:59:18,550 --> 01:59:16,800
all of that is kept and accumulated

3437
01:59:19,589 --> 01:59:18,560
because it's all part of this growing up

3438
01:59:21,109 --> 01:59:19,599
process

3439
01:59:22,790 --> 01:59:21,119
if you understand your history it's

3440
01:59:24,709 --> 01:59:22,800
easier to make sense of

3441
01:59:26,870 --> 01:59:24,719
you know what you're doing so it's it's

3442
01:59:30,390 --> 01:59:26,880
this community function so that's what

3443
01:59:32,709 --> 01:59:30,400
your your iuc is that function

3444
01:59:33,910 --> 01:59:32,719
so it takes a part of itself not the

3445
01:59:36,149 --> 01:59:33,920
memory of all those past

3446
01:59:38,390 --> 01:59:36,159
lives or anything else takes up just the

3447
01:59:40,550 --> 01:59:38,400
quality logs on

3448
01:59:41,430 --> 01:59:40,560
becomes you the little baby boy you go

3449
01:59:42,950 --> 01:59:41,440
through life

3450
01:59:45,030 --> 01:59:42,960
and that little baby boy gets old and

3451
01:59:46,950 --> 01:59:45,040
dies of old age and

3452
01:59:48,870 --> 01:59:46,960
now what happens as soon as he dies of

3453
01:59:51,189 --> 01:59:48,880
old age

3454
01:59:52,709 --> 01:59:51,199
he's no longer in the avatar anymore

3455
01:59:54,070 --> 01:59:52,719
avatar is dead

3456
01:59:55,750 --> 01:59:54,080
so the avatar you're not getting any

3457
01:59:57,270 --> 01:59:55,760
more sense data from the avatar since

3458
02:00:01,189 --> 01:59:57,280
data stopped

3459
02:00:02,149 --> 02:00:01,199
okay so that that consciousness that was

3460
02:00:05,270 --> 02:00:02,159
this

3461
02:00:08,310 --> 02:00:05,280
subset

3462
02:00:10,870 --> 02:00:08,320
of the iuoc it starts to

3463
02:00:12,950 --> 02:00:10,880
take that partition down it starts to

3464
02:00:13,830 --> 02:00:12,960
reintegrate with the individuated unit

3465
02:00:17,270 --> 02:00:13,840
of consciousness

3466
02:00:20,310 --> 02:00:17,280
life over so yes

3467
02:00:21,189 --> 02:00:20,320
that individuated unit of consciousness

3468
02:00:23,430 --> 02:00:21,199
is immortal

3469
02:00:24,550 --> 02:00:23,440
it lives on through many lifetimes just

3470
02:00:26,550 --> 02:00:24,560
because your elf dies

3471
02:00:28,709 --> 02:00:26,560
the player doesn't drop over dead you

3472
02:00:32,070 --> 02:00:28,719
know the player continues on

3473
02:00:33,109 --> 02:00:32,080
so now that uh but said instead of being

3474
02:00:36,070 --> 02:00:33,119
a player

3475
02:00:37,510 --> 02:00:36,080
where you just have all of you you know

3476
02:00:39,030 --> 02:00:37,520
you're there you're in your room you

3477
02:00:40,070 --> 02:00:39,040
know you have a refrigerator in the next

3478
02:00:41,830 --> 02:00:40,080
door and you're playing

3479
02:00:42,950 --> 02:00:41,840
and you can always put it on pause we're

3480
02:00:44,470 --> 02:00:42,960
not doing it that way we're going to

3481
02:00:46,070 --> 02:00:44,480
take a part of you

3482
02:00:48,390 --> 02:00:46,080
that's going to log on and stay with

3483
02:00:50,229 --> 02:00:48,400
that game period

3484
02:00:51,750 --> 02:00:50,239
from that point on it's just logged onto

3485
02:00:52,870 --> 02:00:51,760
that game and doesn't do anything else

3486
02:00:54,790 --> 02:00:52,880
and it starts

3487
02:00:56,950 --> 02:00:54,800
not with any memory of what it started

3488
02:01:00,390 --> 02:00:56,960
with but just with its quality

3489
02:01:02,709 --> 02:01:00,400
okay so okay so it's just a piece of you

3490
02:01:03,430 --> 02:01:02,719
all right now that you die that piece of

3491
02:01:05,350 --> 02:01:03,440
you now

3492
02:01:06,470 --> 02:01:05,360
the partition's taken down because it's

3493
02:01:08,790 --> 02:01:06,480
not logged on

3494
02:01:10,470 --> 02:01:08,800
no point logging onto a dead thing so

3495
02:01:12,550 --> 02:01:10,480
the petition's taking down that free

3496
02:01:14,709 --> 02:01:12,560
will awareness unit kind of re

3497
02:01:16,390 --> 02:01:14,719
becomes a part of the individuated unit

3498
02:01:17,910 --> 02:01:16,400
of consciousness and one more lifetime

3499
02:01:20,870 --> 02:01:17,920
of experience is there

3500
02:01:23,189 --> 02:01:20,880
for it to try to evolve from its

3501
02:01:25,109 --> 02:01:23,199
experience and then it begins

3502
02:01:28,229 --> 02:01:25,119
the individual unit of consciousness

3503
02:01:30,950 --> 02:01:28,239
starts to negotiate for another

3504
02:01:31,510 --> 02:01:30,960
another lifetime another chance to learn

3505
02:01:33,589 --> 02:01:31,520
things

3506
02:01:37,109 --> 02:01:33,599
and it repeats again it partitions off a

3507
02:01:38,629 --> 02:01:37,119
part of itself at its now new higher

3508
02:01:40,070 --> 02:01:38,639
quality of consciousness because you

3509
02:01:41,830 --> 02:01:40,080
were a good boy and you did a lot of

3510
02:01:42,790 --> 02:01:41,840
good things so now you leave the hole a

3511
02:01:46,950 --> 02:01:42,800
little higher

3512
02:01:48,870 --> 02:01:46,960
level quality of consciousness

3513
02:01:50,629 --> 02:01:48,880
and starts the thing all over again

3514
02:01:53,750 --> 02:01:50,639
starts to in you know

3515
02:01:55,669 --> 02:01:53,760
connects logs on to interesting baby

3516
02:01:56,390 --> 02:01:55,679
okay so that's the way the process works

3517
02:01:58,229 --> 02:01:56,400
so

3518
02:02:00,229 --> 02:01:58,239
you the consciousness that's making

3519
02:02:05,030 --> 02:02:00,239
choices is just a subset

3520
02:02:08,550 --> 02:02:05,040
of the of you you're i'd say okay iuc

3521
02:02:11,750 --> 02:02:08,560
okay so you're the cumulative

3522
02:02:13,350 --> 02:02:11,760
part yeah now when people say you should

3523
02:02:15,189 --> 02:02:13,360
have been one should abandon their ego

3524
02:02:16,709 --> 02:02:15,199
is that somewhat approximately like

3525
02:02:18,709 --> 02:02:16,719
saying don't

3526
02:02:20,629 --> 02:02:18,719
mistaken the avatar as the orb or

3527
02:02:21,669 --> 02:02:20,639
mistaken the avatar as the individuated

3528
02:02:24,790 --> 02:02:21,679
unit of consciousness

3529
02:02:26,149 --> 02:02:24,800
or is that different no abandoning your

3530
02:02:28,709 --> 02:02:26,159
ego

3531
02:02:29,830 --> 02:02:28,719
is a little is a little different thing

3532
02:02:32,149 --> 02:02:29,840
ego

3533
02:02:33,990 --> 02:02:32,159
their first consciousness is awareness

3534
02:02:36,149 --> 02:02:34,000
that makes choices

3535
02:02:37,910 --> 02:02:36,159
simple definition of consciousness it's

3536
02:02:41,750 --> 02:02:37,920
awareness that makes choices

3537
02:02:44,629 --> 02:02:41,760
all right now ego is awareness in the

3538
02:02:51,350 --> 02:02:47,910
ego is about self it's self-focused

3539
02:02:52,390 --> 02:02:51,360
and that's because of fear so fear

3540
02:02:54,950 --> 02:02:52,400
really creates

3541
02:02:55,430 --> 02:02:54,960
ego it's awareness in the service of

3542
02:02:58,470 --> 02:02:55,440
fear

3543
02:02:58,950 --> 02:02:58,480
that's ego now given that most everybody

3544
02:03:05,270 --> 02:02:58,960
in our

3545
02:03:06,709 --> 02:03:05,280
so much so that when freud looked at

3546
02:03:08,310 --> 02:03:06,719
everybody in the world he said well

3547
02:03:09,750 --> 02:03:08,320
everybody's got ego and they seem to be

3548
02:03:10,709 --> 02:03:09,760
doing all right so it must be a good

3549
02:03:17,510 --> 02:03:10,719
thing

3550
02:03:19,109 --> 02:03:17,520
we're trying to outgrow and get rid of

3551
02:03:21,510 --> 02:03:19,119
we don't want to have our any of our

3552
02:03:25,589 --> 02:03:21,520
awareness in the service of fear

3553
02:03:28,629 --> 02:03:25,599
okay so that's so ego is

3554
02:03:31,270 --> 02:03:28,639
is that ego is is a

3555
02:03:31,910 --> 02:03:31,280
representation of your fear ego is the

3556
02:03:34,870 --> 02:03:31,920
thing

3557
02:03:36,470 --> 02:03:34,880
that tries that helps you whitewash over

3558
02:03:37,109 --> 02:03:36,480
wait wait sorry ego is a representation

3559
02:03:40,790 --> 02:03:37,119
of fear

3560
02:03:42,950 --> 02:03:40,800
put it that way

3561
02:03:44,390 --> 02:03:42,960
it represents the fear in the sense that

3562
02:03:47,270 --> 02:03:44,400
what the ego does

3563
02:03:49,510 --> 02:03:47,280
is it tries to make you feel better

3564
02:03:52,790 --> 02:03:49,520
about the fear it whitewashes the fear

3565
02:03:54,149 --> 02:03:52,800
the fear says oh you know i feel

3566
02:03:57,669 --> 02:03:54,159
terribly inadequate

3567
02:04:00,550 --> 02:03:57,679
and the ego says oh i'm not inadequate

3568
02:04:02,709 --> 02:04:00,560
that person's just a you know just a

3569
02:04:04,149 --> 02:04:02,719
crud that person's really stupid

3570
02:04:06,149 --> 02:04:04,159
they just think i'm inadequate because

3571
02:04:09,510 --> 02:04:06,159
they're so stupid that's the ego

3572
02:04:11,109 --> 02:04:09,520
that tries to whitewash over the fear so

3573
02:04:13,990 --> 02:04:11,119
you don't have to deal with that fear

3574
02:04:15,109 --> 02:04:14,000
you blame it on somebody else oh i don't

3575
02:04:17,030 --> 02:04:15,119
get angry

3576
02:04:18,149 --> 02:04:17,040
george makes me angry could you feel

3577
02:04:20,629 --> 02:04:18,159
fear without an ego

3578
02:04:21,189 --> 02:04:20,639
and could you have an ego without fear

3579
02:04:23,669 --> 02:04:21,199
if you

3580
02:04:25,750 --> 02:04:23,679
didn't have any fear you wouldn't have

3581
02:04:28,950 --> 02:04:25,760
any ego

3582
02:04:32,069 --> 02:04:28,960
okay and if you can you have an ego

3583
02:04:36,310 --> 02:04:33,990
sorry i think those are equivalent no

3584
02:04:39,350 --> 02:04:36,320
yeah you you can't let me restate it

3585
02:04:40,550 --> 02:04:39,360
let me restate it i'm wondering about

3586
02:04:44,310 --> 02:04:40,560
the implication arrow so

3587
02:04:47,430 --> 02:04:44,320
does fear always imply an ego

3588
02:04:51,030 --> 02:04:47,440
yes okay now does ego always imply a

3589
02:04:56,709 --> 02:04:54,310
yes okay so then

3590
02:04:59,109 --> 02:04:56,719
i know you don't like when i do this but

3591
02:05:01,510 --> 02:04:59,119
to take it a bit mathematically though

3592
02:05:02,709 --> 02:05:01,520
it's how you it's yeah they're they're

3593
02:05:04,550 --> 02:05:02,719
equivalent but it doesn't mean they're

3594
02:05:07,189 --> 02:05:04,560
the same

3595
02:05:08,310 --> 02:05:07,199
right right does not mean isomorphic is

3596
02:05:10,790 --> 02:05:08,320
not the same right yeah

3597
02:05:13,109 --> 02:05:10,800
that's different so because you because

3598
02:05:15,350 --> 02:05:13,119
ego is a product of fear

3599
02:05:16,870 --> 02:05:15,360
then you're not going to have an ego if

3600
02:05:20,229 --> 02:05:16,880
you don't have any fear

3601
02:05:22,790 --> 02:05:20,239
and if you have an ego well then you

3602
02:05:24,229 --> 02:05:22,800
have must have fear because ego is a

3603
02:05:26,709 --> 02:05:24,239
product of fear

3604
02:05:27,830 --> 02:05:26,719
you say so they're different but they're

3605
02:05:30,310 --> 02:05:27,840
not equivalent

3606
02:05:32,229 --> 02:05:30,320
they're not the same thing one produces

3607
02:05:34,310 --> 02:05:32,239
the other so you can't have

3608
02:05:36,229 --> 02:05:34,320
you can't have something produced that

3609
02:05:39,510 --> 02:05:36,239
doesn't have the thing that produced it

3610
02:05:42,870 --> 02:05:39,520
wait well okay i need i mean

3611
02:05:43,830 --> 02:05:42,880
let's get to let's get to the npmr

3612
02:05:45,750 --> 02:05:43,840
experiences

3613
02:05:47,030 --> 02:05:45,760
because there were two extremely

3614
02:05:47,430 --> 02:05:47,040
interesting parts of the book not just

3615
02:05:50,229 --> 02:05:47,440
two

3616
02:05:51,270 --> 02:05:50,239
out to me that i desperately want to

3617
02:05:53,270 --> 02:05:51,280
talk to you about

3618
02:05:54,709 --> 02:05:53,280
so one is your first experience where

3619
02:05:56,870 --> 02:05:54,719
you went in and

3620
02:05:58,149 --> 02:05:56,880
you had such uh transcendence from

3621
02:06:00,069 --> 02:05:58,159
transcendental meditation that you

3622
02:06:03,669 --> 02:06:00,079
almost fell off your chair

3623
02:06:05,990 --> 02:06:03,679
okay i don't believe in that time you

3624
02:06:07,189 --> 02:06:06,000
spoke to other beings but at some point

3625
02:06:09,109 --> 02:06:07,199
i believe when you were younger you

3626
02:06:10,629 --> 02:06:09,119
spoke to some beings and then when you

3627
02:06:11,830 --> 02:06:10,639
were older you recalled it and then you

3628
02:06:16,310 --> 02:06:11,840
were able to do it

3629
02:06:18,550 --> 02:06:16,320
some more okay now uh

3630
02:06:19,350 --> 02:06:18,560
like that's super super super super

3631
02:06:21,750 --> 02:06:19,360
interesting

3632
02:06:23,270 --> 02:06:21,760
because well the implications for that

3633
02:06:24,229 --> 02:06:23,280
now everything i'm saying if ever it

3634
02:06:27,270 --> 02:06:24,239
sounds like critiques

3635
02:06:28,950 --> 02:06:27,280
please i desperately want to believe

3636
02:06:30,470 --> 02:06:28,960
in i know you don't like belief but i

3637
02:06:31,510 --> 02:06:30,480
doesn't really work yeah i don't want

3638
02:06:33,109 --> 02:06:31,520
you to believe i want you

3639
02:06:35,030 --> 02:06:33,119
to experience it for yourself i

3640
02:06:37,189 --> 02:06:35,040
understand

3641
02:06:38,709 --> 02:06:37,199
it would be great if all of what you

3642
02:06:40,550 --> 02:06:38,719
were saying was absolutely true

3643
02:06:42,069 --> 02:06:40,560
and so if you see what i'm doing as

3644
02:06:42,709 --> 02:06:42,079
almost poking and prodding please it's

3645
02:06:44,870 --> 02:06:42,719
like

3646
02:06:46,950 --> 02:06:44,880
i want to believe and so i need to i

3647
02:06:49,589 --> 02:06:46,960
don't need i don't get great i don't

3648
02:06:50,149 --> 02:06:49,599
care about poking and priding poke and

3649
02:06:52,870 --> 02:06:50,159
prod

3650
02:06:53,990 --> 02:06:52,880
all you like feel free to ask the hard

3651
02:06:55,270 --> 02:06:54,000
drive but it's coming from it's coming

3652
02:06:55,750 --> 02:06:55,280
from a good place i just want you to

3653
02:06:56,950 --> 02:06:55,760
know that

3654
02:06:58,790 --> 02:06:56,960
okay i'm not trying to make you look

3655
02:07:00,550 --> 02:06:58,800
foolish in the least no that's not the

3656
02:07:01,669 --> 02:07:00,560
point i don't mind hard questions if you

3657
02:07:03,510 --> 02:07:01,679
want to say well how do you know you're

3658
02:07:05,109 --> 02:07:03,520
just not making all this up

3659
02:07:07,109 --> 02:07:05,119
oh yeah yeah okay so let's go let's get

3660
02:07:08,069 --> 02:07:07,119
to a little bit of fallibility i don't

3661
02:07:09,589 --> 02:07:08,079
mind

3662
02:07:11,189 --> 02:07:09,599
when it comes to the two part there's an

3663
02:07:12,310 --> 02:07:11,199
intellect and then there's an intuitive

3664
02:07:15,109 --> 02:07:12,320
part of you

3665
02:07:16,629 --> 02:07:15,119
now the intuitive part is notoriously

3666
02:07:19,990 --> 02:07:16,639
fallible

3667
02:07:20,790 --> 02:07:20,000
and airy yeah for most people that's not

3668
02:07:23,510 --> 02:07:20,800
its nature

3669
02:07:23,990 --> 02:07:23,520
it's just that way in most people well

3670
02:07:26,550 --> 02:07:24,000
we can

3671
02:07:28,310 --> 02:07:26,560
say that it is somewhat in nature only

3672
02:07:29,910 --> 02:07:28,320
because

3673
02:07:31,510 --> 02:07:29,920
well as far as we know animals don't

3674
02:07:33,189 --> 02:07:31,520
have much of an intellect and

3675
02:07:35,109 --> 02:07:33,199
when we were in our more tribal states

3676
02:07:37,910 --> 02:07:35,119
there was much more war and famine

3677
02:07:39,350 --> 02:07:37,920
and brutality let's say obviously we

3678
02:07:40,870 --> 02:07:39,360
magnify that because of our intellect

3679
02:07:43,109 --> 02:07:40,880
with nuclear weapons and so on

3680
02:07:44,310 --> 02:07:43,119
well let me make one statement about the

3681
02:07:45,990 --> 02:07:44,320
about what you said that maybe you'll

3682
02:07:49,589 --> 02:07:46,000
help clear things up

3683
02:07:52,470 --> 02:07:49,599
your intuition can be just as

3684
02:07:53,350 --> 02:07:52,480
accurate and just as reliable as your

3685
02:07:56,709 --> 02:07:53,360
intellect

3686
02:07:57,589 --> 02:07:56,719
yes just have to develop it okay in our

3687
02:08:00,629 --> 02:07:57,599
culture

3688
02:08:02,310 --> 02:08:00,639
we don't develop it we just develop our

3689
02:08:04,550 --> 02:08:02,320
intellect and we spend you know

3690
02:08:05,990 --> 02:08:04,560
20 or 30 years going through school and

3691
02:08:07,669 --> 02:08:06,000
graduate school and you know we go to

3692
02:08:10,709 --> 02:08:07,679
college with all this stuff

3693
02:08:12,950 --> 02:08:10,719
to develop our intellect we do nothing

3694
02:08:13,830 --> 02:08:12,960
to develop our intuition so our

3695
02:08:16,790 --> 02:08:13,840
intuition

3696
02:08:17,510 --> 02:08:16,800
is terribly undeveloped if we didn't go

3697
02:08:19,430 --> 02:08:17,520
to school

3698
02:08:21,030 --> 02:08:19,440
and develop our intellect that wouldn't

3699
02:08:22,709 --> 02:08:21,040
be working very well either we wouldn't

3700
02:08:25,910 --> 02:08:22,719
have much of an intellect

3701
02:08:29,510 --> 02:08:25,920
so we your intuition

3702
02:08:31,270 --> 02:08:29,520
can be as accurate and as reliable

3703
02:08:33,510 --> 02:08:31,280
as your int you know your intuition can

3704
02:08:34,390 --> 02:08:33,520
be as accurate and as reliable as your

3705
02:08:37,589 --> 02:08:34,400
intellect

3706
02:08:41,589 --> 02:08:37,599
it's just that we don't develop it

3707
02:08:44,709 --> 02:08:41,599
if we did develop it we could use it

3708
02:08:46,870 --> 02:08:44,719
as a as a very professional yeah and is

3709
02:08:48,069 --> 02:08:46,880
one of the claims the way that we

3710
02:08:50,790 --> 02:08:48,079
develop it is through

3711
02:08:52,149 --> 02:08:50,800
love because the way that i would

3712
02:08:53,270 --> 02:08:52,159
understand that we develop it at least

3713
02:08:55,510 --> 02:08:53,280
through my research

3714
02:08:56,709 --> 02:08:55,520
as unspecific as this sounds is through

3715
02:08:58,470 --> 02:08:56,719
truth and love

3716
02:09:00,470 --> 02:08:58,480
but love and truth are so tricky to

3717
02:09:01,750 --> 02:09:00,480
define but we have an intuitive notion

3718
02:09:02,950 --> 02:09:01,760
of them like we know when we're lying we

3719
02:09:04,629 --> 02:09:02,960
know when we're deceiving we know and

3720
02:09:06,870 --> 02:09:04,639
we're manipulating

3721
02:09:08,709 --> 02:09:06,880
you develop that intelligence yeah you

3722
02:09:10,149 --> 02:09:08,719
develop that intuitive space

3723
02:09:12,149 --> 02:09:10,159
a couple of there's a couple of things

3724
02:09:15,189 --> 02:09:12,159
that are required to develop it

3725
02:09:16,149 --> 02:09:15,199
and in the process of developing that

3726
02:09:18,470 --> 02:09:16,159
intuitive space

3727
02:09:20,709 --> 02:09:18,480
you often do evolve some and become a

3728
02:09:23,750 --> 02:09:20,719
little more loved so they're connected

3729
02:09:25,830 --> 02:09:23,760
but it's not that love you know really

3730
02:09:28,870 --> 02:09:25,840
develops the intuitive space it's like a

3731
02:09:31,109 --> 02:09:28,880
a product of developing that it

3732
02:09:32,950 --> 02:09:31,119
i think it comes with it because you

3733
02:09:34,629 --> 02:09:32,960
made an analogy between

3734
02:09:36,870 --> 02:09:34,639
love and the lowering of the entropy

3735
02:09:38,550 --> 02:09:36,880
sorry love is the lowered state of

3736
02:09:39,830 --> 02:09:38,560
entropy whereas the process of lowering

3737
02:09:43,589 --> 02:09:39,840
love is something different than love

3738
02:09:46,950 --> 02:09:43,599
yeah okay so this intuitive side

3739
02:09:49,350 --> 02:09:46,960
one you have to reduce the noise level

3740
02:09:50,149 --> 02:09:49,360
in your mind this intuitive state is a

3741
02:09:52,149 --> 02:09:50,159
mental thing

3742
02:09:53,990 --> 02:09:52,159
right so first you have to reduce the

3743
02:09:55,109 --> 02:09:54,000
noise that's what you learn when you

3744
02:09:57,750 --> 02:09:55,119
meditate you learn

3745
02:09:58,229 --> 02:09:57,760
to reduce the noise so you don't have

3746
02:10:00,870 --> 02:09:58,239
these

3747
02:10:02,310 --> 02:10:00,880
thoughts buzzing through your mind all

3748
02:10:03,990 --> 02:10:02,320
the time what am i going to do next what

3749
02:10:06,790 --> 02:10:04,000
about this i should read that other book

3750
02:10:07,669 --> 02:10:06,800
what's for dinner tonight you know do

3751
02:10:08,790 --> 02:10:07,679
psychedelics

3752
02:10:10,870 --> 02:10:08,800
also help with this or is that

3753
02:10:14,229 --> 02:10:10,880
completely different psychedelics are

3754
02:10:14,629 --> 02:10:14,239
basically a real bad idea at least if

3755
02:10:17,990 --> 02:10:14,639
you

3756
02:10:19,669 --> 02:10:18,000
use them more than once

3757
02:10:21,270 --> 02:10:19,679
more than once or twice they're a very

3758
02:10:22,229 --> 02:10:21,280
bad idea so i don't recommend

3759
02:10:24,069 --> 02:10:22,239
psychedelics

3760
02:10:25,270 --> 02:10:24,079
they give you an experience but an

3761
02:10:31,510 --> 02:10:25,280
experience

3762
02:10:33,109 --> 02:10:31,520
it's it's what you it's what you make of

3763
02:10:34,709 --> 02:10:33,119
the experience it's the process of

3764
02:10:36,709 --> 02:10:34,719
having that experience of getting there

3765
02:10:39,910 --> 02:10:36,719
and coming back and so on it's the

3766
02:10:43,510 --> 02:10:39,920
it's the journey not just the experience

3767
02:10:47,030 --> 02:10:43,520
so having the experiences is

3768
02:10:47,830 --> 02:10:47,040
maybe a it may be a wow and it may be

3769
02:10:49,189 --> 02:10:47,840
something that

3770
02:10:51,270 --> 02:10:49,199
you feel like it's a you know a

3771
02:10:52,310 --> 02:10:51,280
life-changing event but it really

3772
02:10:53,910 --> 02:10:52,320
doesn't change much

3773
02:10:56,149 --> 02:10:53,920
it's it's how you integrate that

3774
02:10:57,510 --> 02:10:56,159
experience the context in which you have

3775
02:11:00,790 --> 02:10:57,520
the experience

3776
02:11:02,950 --> 02:11:00,800
and being shot up you know like a rocket

3777
02:11:04,950 --> 02:11:02,960
because you're taking a drug yeah

3778
02:11:06,229 --> 02:11:04,960
definitely big experience but

3779
02:11:08,149 --> 02:11:06,239
it's not really going to take you

3780
02:11:09,750 --> 02:11:08,159
anywhere significant is there nothing

3781
02:11:11,750 --> 02:11:09,760
salutary to say about

3782
02:11:13,270 --> 02:11:11,760
psychedelics because there are

3783
02:11:14,310 --> 02:11:13,280
experiences that people feel

3784
02:11:16,470 --> 02:11:14,320
and then they come back and it's

3785
02:11:18,870 --> 02:11:16,480
something like a 70 70

3786
02:11:19,910 --> 02:11:18,880
of people five years later so almost

3787
02:11:21,830 --> 02:11:19,920
permanent effect

3788
02:11:24,069 --> 02:11:21,840
a one standard deviation in the feelings

3789
02:11:25,669 --> 02:11:24,079
of openness and feelings of compassion

3790
02:11:27,510 --> 02:11:25,679
as self-reported and reported by their

3791
02:11:29,109 --> 02:11:27,520
family members so that's why

3792
02:11:31,270 --> 02:11:29,119
it seems like whether or not they're

3793
02:11:33,589 --> 02:11:31,280
experiencing something real

3794
02:11:34,629 --> 02:11:33,599
quote unquote it seems like it's as a

3795
02:11:35,750 --> 02:11:34,639
whole good

3796
02:11:37,750 --> 02:11:35,760
i'm not saying you're denigrating

3797
02:11:38,149 --> 02:11:37,760
experiences but why are you putting them

3798
02:11:39,910 --> 02:11:38,159
at a

3799
02:11:41,350 --> 02:11:39,920
second here i'm putting it this way

3800
02:11:43,350 --> 02:11:41,360
because

3801
02:11:45,990 --> 02:11:43,360
it's the same thing about the difference

3802
02:11:48,470 --> 02:11:46,000
between acting kind and being kind

3803
02:11:50,229 --> 02:11:48,480
okay so the experience is something that

3804
02:11:52,709 --> 02:11:50,239
your intellect

3805
02:11:53,430 --> 02:11:52,719
has it's your experience this is what

3806
02:12:00,310 --> 02:11:53,440
you

3807
02:12:03,350 --> 02:12:00,320
now that experience can be

3808
02:12:04,310 --> 02:12:03,360
amazing and can be life-changing but if

3809
02:12:07,030 --> 02:12:04,320
it doesn't

3810
02:12:08,069 --> 02:12:07,040
get from your intellect down into your

3811
02:12:10,870 --> 02:12:08,079
being level

3812
02:12:12,390 --> 02:12:10,880
down into your intuitive side then you

3813
02:12:14,550 --> 02:12:12,400
will just

3814
02:12:15,510 --> 02:12:14,560
it'll be a way you act but it won't

3815
02:12:19,510 --> 02:12:15,520
change who you

3816
02:12:22,229 --> 02:12:19,520
are that's the difference now

3817
02:12:24,069 --> 02:12:22,239
some people uh you know take drugs and

3818
02:12:25,430 --> 02:12:24,079
once they take a drug and they kind of

3819
02:12:27,990 --> 02:12:25,440
get that vision

3820
02:12:28,790 --> 02:12:28,000
and they see this bigger picture then

3821
02:12:30,229 --> 02:12:28,800
they start

3822
02:12:31,990 --> 02:12:30,239
searching they go to the internet and

3823
02:12:33,030 --> 02:12:32,000
what's going on has anybody else seen

3824
02:12:35,750 --> 02:12:33,040
things like that

3825
02:12:37,030 --> 02:12:35,760
and then they become seekers that's good

3826
02:12:38,629 --> 02:12:37,040
okay now that drug

3827
02:12:39,830 --> 02:12:38,639
event was a good thing in their life

3828
02:12:40,870 --> 02:12:39,840
because it pushed them in the right

3829
02:12:42,790 --> 02:12:40,880
direction

3830
02:12:44,390 --> 02:12:42,800
what's bad about drugs is if you take

3831
02:12:47,350 --> 02:12:44,400
that experience

3832
02:12:48,229 --> 02:12:47,360
and you don't make the effort and do the

3833
02:12:50,629 --> 02:12:48,239
work

3834
02:12:52,069 --> 02:12:50,639
to learn about it to internalize it to

3835
02:12:54,629 --> 02:12:52,079
grow up from it

3836
02:12:55,910 --> 02:12:54,639
then you want another one because that

3837
02:12:57,750 --> 02:12:55,920
one was kind of cool well let's do it

3838
02:13:00,069 --> 02:12:57,760
again and let's do it again

3839
02:13:02,870 --> 02:13:00,079
and you become convinced in your own

3840
02:13:04,709 --> 02:13:02,880
mind that you are much more spiritual

3841
02:13:06,550 --> 02:13:04,719
than you were and you should think big

3842
02:13:07,109 --> 02:13:06,560
thoughts and that you act better and so

3843
02:13:08,790 --> 02:13:07,119
on

3844
02:13:10,629 --> 02:13:08,800
and you may actually act a little better

3845
02:13:12,229 --> 02:13:10,639
but the point is are you growing up are

3846
02:13:16,229 --> 02:13:12,239
you changing yourself

3847
02:13:19,189 --> 02:13:16,239
is the real um what's the word uh

3848
02:13:20,069 --> 02:13:19,199
authentic you different than you were

3849
02:13:22,390 --> 02:13:20,079
before

3850
02:13:26,470 --> 02:13:22,400
and yeah a little example of this as far

3851
02:13:30,950 --> 02:13:29,830
his name escapes me now he did research

3852
02:13:34,229 --> 02:13:30,960
pretty good research

3853
02:13:36,149 --> 02:13:34,239
with um dmt

3854
02:13:39,189 --> 02:13:36,159
strassman or something like that

3855
02:13:41,030 --> 02:13:39,199
strasberg straussman

3856
02:13:43,030 --> 02:13:41,040
anyway he did dmz research so he got a

3857
02:13:44,470 --> 02:13:43,040
bunch of people around and over a year

3858
02:13:46,229 --> 02:13:44,480
so he got these people gave him

3859
02:13:48,310 --> 02:13:46,239
psychology tests you know

3860
02:13:49,910 --> 02:13:48,320
interviewed them really got into their

3861
02:13:51,430 --> 02:13:49,920
minds and who they were and what they

3862
02:13:53,910 --> 02:13:51,440
were and attitudes and

3863
02:13:55,030 --> 02:13:53,920
then he'd give them some dmt and and in

3864
02:13:57,750 --> 02:13:55,040
a very controlled

3865
02:13:59,589 --> 02:13:57,760
situation they had experiences they

3866
02:14:02,069 --> 02:13:59,599
described these as life-changing

3867
02:14:05,270 --> 02:14:02,079
experiences they saw big pictures they

3868
02:14:06,550 --> 02:14:05,280
they learned and so on well after all

3869
02:14:08,550 --> 02:14:06,560
that was done

3870
02:14:09,750 --> 02:14:08,560
and each of them had had probably a

3871
02:14:12,229 --> 02:14:09,760
dozen or more

3872
02:14:14,310 --> 02:14:12,239
trips maybe twice that many i don't know

3873
02:14:15,430 --> 02:14:14,320
but when the research was done he waited

3874
02:14:17,189 --> 02:14:15,440
for

3875
02:14:19,430 --> 02:14:17,199
six months or a year or two i don't

3876
02:14:21,430 --> 02:14:19,440
remember maybe as much as five and he

3877
02:14:23,350 --> 02:14:21,440
got all the people back together again

3878
02:14:25,030 --> 02:14:23,360
and ran them through all those same

3879
02:14:26,069 --> 02:14:25,040
psychological tests and who they were

3880
02:14:27,350 --> 02:14:26,079
and what they thought and what their

3881
02:14:29,910 --> 02:14:27,360
attitudes were

3882
02:14:31,990 --> 02:14:29,920
you couldn't find any difference he said

3883
02:14:33,669 --> 02:14:32,000
for all the times he heard this has

3884
02:14:36,550 --> 02:14:33,679
changed my life

3885
02:14:38,149 --> 02:14:36,560
it didn't really seem to change

3886
02:14:41,109 --> 02:14:38,159
anybody's life

3887
02:14:43,189 --> 02:14:41,119
so most of that is perception of the

3888
02:14:46,390 --> 02:14:43,199
person who has seen those things and

3889
02:14:48,390 --> 02:14:46,400
feels smarter bigger and better and it

3890
02:14:49,589 --> 02:14:48,400
reminds me of a bunch of drunks sitting

3891
02:14:52,790 --> 02:14:49,599
around a table

3892
02:14:53,990 --> 02:14:52,800
all of whom feel brilliant and in one

3893
02:14:56,709 --> 02:14:54,000
night of

3894
02:14:58,229 --> 02:14:56,719
of uh imbibing they saw of all the

3895
02:15:00,790 --> 02:14:58,239
problems of the world and uh

3896
02:15:02,149 --> 02:15:00,800
you know in a in a perfect way go home

3897
02:15:04,709 --> 02:15:02,159
and the next morning can't really

3898
02:15:08,149 --> 02:15:04,719
remember what those solutions were

3899
02:15:08,870 --> 02:15:08,159
i think it's uh it's more of for most

3900
02:15:12,310 --> 02:15:08,880
people

3901
02:15:13,589 --> 02:15:12,320
it changes them at the intellectual

3902
02:15:16,629 --> 02:15:13,599
level

3903
02:15:18,069 --> 02:15:16,639
and it changes their perceptions but it

3904
02:15:21,109 --> 02:15:18,079
doesn't necessarily change

3905
02:15:23,030 --> 02:15:21,119
them now that's a generalization i'm not

3906
02:15:23,910 --> 02:15:23,040
saying that that is the way it is for

3907
02:15:26,069 --> 02:15:23,920
everybody

3908
02:15:27,589 --> 02:15:26,079
i'm just saying that typically people

3909
02:15:31,189 --> 02:15:27,599
who take drugs

3910
02:15:34,550 --> 02:15:31,199
tend to think that they are

3911
02:15:36,310 --> 02:15:34,560
different fundamentally when mostly they

3912
02:15:38,390 --> 02:15:36,320
didn't grow up much from it at all

3913
02:15:41,350 --> 02:15:38,400
for them it was like a roller coaster

3914
02:15:43,830 --> 02:15:41,360
ride a peak experience

3915
02:15:45,750 --> 02:15:43,840
but if it doesn't change you so that

3916
02:15:47,990 --> 02:15:45,760
experience has to get from the intellect

3917
02:15:48,950 --> 02:15:48,000
down into where you actually change who

3918
02:15:51,750 --> 02:15:48,960
you are

3919
02:15:53,510 --> 02:15:51,760
otherwise there's no growth can

3920
02:15:55,910 --> 02:15:53,520
experiences induce a change

3921
02:15:57,350 --> 02:15:55,920
without you having to try just because

3922
02:15:57,830 --> 02:15:57,360
you've experienced it for whatever

3923
02:15:59,510 --> 02:15:57,840
reason

3924
02:16:01,589 --> 02:15:59,520
like let's say neo coming out of the

3925
02:16:02,790 --> 02:16:01,599
matrix that i would imagine would

3926
02:16:04,950 --> 02:16:02,800
fundamentally change them

3927
02:16:06,709 --> 02:16:04,960
without trying it just shocks him into

3928
02:16:09,030 --> 02:16:06,719
change and then he no longer wants to be

3929
02:16:12,310 --> 02:16:09,040
in the matrix yeah well what it does

3930
02:16:14,310 --> 02:16:12,320
is it is it reorients his understanding

3931
02:16:17,030 --> 02:16:14,320
of what reality is

3932
02:16:18,470 --> 02:16:17,040
and understands an understanding of

3933
02:16:20,550 --> 02:16:18,480
what's important and what's not

3934
02:16:22,229 --> 02:16:20,560
you know it totally reorients his

3935
02:16:23,109 --> 02:16:22,239
reality so all the things he used to

3936
02:16:25,750 --> 02:16:23,119
believe

3937
02:16:26,229 --> 02:16:25,760
well now he realizes those things

3938
02:16:28,550 --> 02:16:26,239
weren't

3939
02:16:29,910 --> 02:16:28,560
so some there's some other different

3940
02:16:33,349 --> 02:16:29,920
reality here

3941
02:16:36,469 --> 02:16:33,359
and if he really takes that

3942
02:16:37,669 --> 02:16:36,479
in and says oh this is the way it is and

3943
02:16:39,589 --> 02:16:37,679
he sees it

3944
02:16:41,030 --> 02:16:39,599
and he's convinced that then yes it's

3945
02:16:43,270 --> 02:16:41,040
changed him so an experience

3946
02:16:44,389 --> 02:16:43,280
can change you at a deep level and some

3947
02:16:46,790 --> 02:16:44,399
people can have

3948
02:16:48,709 --> 02:16:46,800
transcendental you know awakenings and

3949
02:16:52,070 --> 02:16:48,719
experiences and it does change them

3950
02:16:54,790 --> 02:16:52,080
at a very deep level most people

3951
02:16:56,389 --> 02:16:54,800
not so much much if it takes if it comes

3952
02:16:58,309 --> 02:16:56,399
from drugs didn't get any worse

3953
02:17:00,389 --> 02:16:58,319
and when they hit bottom they begin to

3954
02:17:02,709 --> 02:17:00,399
think of you know

3955
02:17:04,469 --> 02:17:02,719
well what else can i do what else is

3956
02:17:05,429 --> 02:17:04,479
there i'm done i'm at the bottom i have

3957
02:17:07,589 --> 02:17:05,439
to stop contr

3958
02:17:08,870 --> 02:17:07,599
trying to control my reality i got to

3959
02:17:11,110 --> 02:17:08,880
just accept it

3960
02:17:11,990 --> 02:17:11,120
and once they start accepting and stop

3961
02:17:13,910 --> 02:17:12,000
controlling

3962
02:17:15,750 --> 02:17:13,920
oh suddenly they get better and better

3963
02:17:16,790 --> 02:17:15,760
and you know six months later they're a

3964
02:17:18,950 --> 02:17:16,800
whole new person

3965
02:17:20,709 --> 02:17:18,960
they've grown up they've transcended

3966
02:17:21,669 --> 02:17:20,719
this problem of needing to control

3967
02:17:23,509 --> 02:17:21,679
everything

3968
02:17:24,950 --> 02:17:23,519
and now they can let things go okay it's

3969
02:17:26,950 --> 02:17:24,960
a growing experience

3970
02:17:28,709 --> 02:17:26,960
so you can have experiences and come out

3971
02:17:30,709 --> 02:17:28,719
of them grown up more

3972
02:17:32,549 --> 02:17:30,719
than when you went into them but that's

3973
02:17:34,469 --> 02:17:32,559
because there was the context

3974
02:17:36,790 --> 02:17:34,479
the context of the journey of getting

3975
02:17:39,830 --> 02:17:36,800
there of the dissension of the pain

3976
02:17:40,950 --> 02:17:39,840
of the being there of giving up and then

3977
02:17:43,270 --> 02:17:40,960
when you give up

3978
02:17:44,230 --> 02:17:43,280
control you start to come back up the

3979
02:17:47,270 --> 02:17:44,240
other side

3980
02:17:49,349 --> 02:17:47,280
so within that context they can change

3981
02:17:52,469 --> 02:17:49,359
themselves but the context is

3982
02:17:53,349 --> 02:17:52,479
well i swallowed a drug and i had this

3983
02:17:55,669 --> 02:17:53,359
experience

3984
02:17:57,830 --> 02:17:55,679
and then i woke up the next day where's

3985
02:18:00,389 --> 02:17:57,840
the context where's the learning context

3986
02:18:03,429 --> 02:18:00,399
you see so most people that do that

3987
02:18:05,910 --> 02:18:03,439
have a harder time growing from it than

3988
02:18:09,190 --> 02:18:05,920
if they actually have a meaningful

3989
02:18:10,070 --> 02:18:09,200
journey to get there taking a drug is

3990
02:18:11,910 --> 02:18:10,080
not a meaningful

3991
02:18:14,230 --> 02:18:11,920
journey it's just wham there's the

3992
02:18:16,709 --> 02:18:14,240
experience oh now it's over

3993
02:18:18,309 --> 02:18:16,719
you feel bad you feel sick depending on

3994
02:18:21,270 --> 02:18:18,319
what kind of drug you take

3995
02:18:22,389 --> 02:18:21,280
and uh that's the end of it whereas if

3996
02:18:25,190 --> 02:18:22,399
you spend time

3997
02:18:25,990 --> 02:18:25,200
meditating clearing your mind getting

3998
02:18:27,990 --> 02:18:26,000
focused

3999
02:18:29,270 --> 02:18:28,000
being able to shut the intellect down

4000
02:18:31,750 --> 02:18:29,280
being able to con

4001
02:18:33,110 --> 02:18:31,760
to make connection to information that's

4002
02:18:34,549 --> 02:18:33,120
that's intuitive

4003
02:18:36,469 --> 02:18:34,559
well now that's the thing that's going

4004
02:18:38,230 --> 02:18:36,479
to take you years to do and a lot of

4005
02:18:40,709 --> 02:18:38,240
effort and work and you're going to work

4006
02:18:41,910 --> 02:18:40,719
on getting it more reliable and

4007
02:18:43,589 --> 02:18:41,920
understanding it

4008
02:18:45,750 --> 02:18:43,599
and when you get there you're a

4009
02:18:47,349 --> 02:18:45,760
different person but it's not just

4010
02:18:48,070 --> 02:18:47,359
because of the experience you had it's

4011
02:18:50,150 --> 02:18:48,080
because of the

4012
02:18:51,589 --> 02:18:50,160
all the things you learned along the way

4013
02:18:52,150 --> 02:18:51,599
it's the context in which that

4014
02:18:54,309 --> 02:18:52,160
experience

4015
02:18:55,990 --> 02:18:54,319
happened so without the context and

4016
02:18:57,750 --> 02:18:56,000
drugs doesn't have a contract

4017
02:18:59,669 --> 02:18:57,760
other than swallowing pills or drinking

4018
02:19:01,589 --> 02:18:59,679
a liquid and

4019
02:19:03,190 --> 02:19:01,599
that just doesn't help most people grow

4020
02:19:05,030 --> 02:19:03,200
up very much

4021
02:19:06,950 --> 02:19:05,040
but they feel more grown up because they

4022
02:19:08,870 --> 02:19:06,960
had this fantastic

4023
02:19:10,150 --> 02:19:08,880
experience they saw the world as it

4024
02:19:13,990 --> 02:19:10,160
really was

4025
02:19:16,469 --> 02:19:14,000
and okay they've seen that but now

4026
02:19:17,910 --> 02:19:16,479
how is that going to change who they are

4027
02:19:20,309 --> 02:19:17,920
for the most

4028
02:19:22,150 --> 02:19:20,319
the time it doesn't that doesn't mean it

4029
02:19:24,150 --> 02:19:22,160
can't it just means

4030
02:19:25,750 --> 02:19:24,160
most people that doesn't as far as i

4031
02:19:28,629 --> 02:19:25,760
know in the research for with

4032
02:19:30,230 --> 02:19:28,639
maps which studies psychedelics somewhat

4033
02:19:32,629 --> 02:19:30,240
assiduously the reports are that

4034
02:19:33,190 --> 02:19:32,639
people's families report them as being

4035
02:19:35,830 --> 02:19:33,200
and

4036
02:19:37,110 --> 02:19:35,840
something like a 70 i'm not advocating

4037
02:19:38,070 --> 02:19:37,120
for drugs so people who are listening

4038
02:19:40,469 --> 02:19:38,080
please don't take this

4039
02:19:42,469 --> 02:19:40,479
but something like 70 of the people have

4040
02:19:43,830 --> 02:19:42,479
self-reports that they're more spiritual

4041
02:19:45,990 --> 02:19:43,840
and open but you're like well

4042
02:19:47,669 --> 02:19:46,000
forget about self-report you can take

4043
02:19:48,710 --> 02:19:47,679
cannabis and say you drive better

4044
02:19:49,349 --> 02:19:48,720
because you're assessing yourself when

4045
02:19:52,150 --> 02:19:49,359
you're on

4046
02:19:52,469 --> 02:19:52,160
cannabis well the family reports too

4047
02:19:54,309 --> 02:19:52,479
yeah

4048
02:19:55,910 --> 02:19:54,319
in a way they would be because they come

4049
02:19:57,910 --> 02:19:55,920
back and

4050
02:19:59,590 --> 02:19:57,920
because they've had this big experience

4051
02:20:01,190 --> 02:19:59,600
they have a larger picture

4052
02:20:02,630 --> 02:20:01,200
they have this they have this larger

4053
02:20:04,309 --> 02:20:02,640
picture they see that

4054
02:20:06,230 --> 02:20:04,319
and intellectually they've gained

4055
02:20:07,670 --> 02:20:06,240
perspective

4056
02:20:08,790 --> 02:20:07,680
is there a reality to this larger

4057
02:20:09,750 --> 02:20:08,800
picture that's induced by the

4058
02:20:12,710 --> 02:20:09,760
psychedelics or

4059
02:20:13,110 --> 02:20:12,720
is it false and the true way to truly

4060
02:20:14,870 --> 02:20:13,120
see

4061
02:20:16,710 --> 02:20:14,880
let's say you have to go through years

4062
02:20:18,790 --> 02:20:16,720
of meditation are they opening the same

4063
02:20:20,630 --> 02:20:18,800
doors in other words or similar doors

4064
02:20:21,910 --> 02:20:20,640
no it's not false it's real they're

4065
02:20:24,550 --> 02:20:21,920
going into the

4066
02:20:26,230 --> 02:20:24,560
you know they're going to call it npmr

4067
02:20:28,710 --> 02:20:26,240
yeah they're going into the same

4068
02:20:30,870 --> 02:20:28,720
kind of mental space it's just mind it's

4069
02:20:32,550 --> 02:20:30,880
mine space it's not

4070
02:20:34,630 --> 02:20:32,560
you know it's not a special place it's

4071
02:20:35,190 --> 02:20:34,640
mind space when they take that drug then

4072
02:20:37,670 --> 02:20:35,200
they're

4073
02:20:38,790 --> 02:20:37,680
taking an adventure in mind space it's a

4074
02:20:40,710 --> 02:20:38,800
mental thing

4075
02:20:43,030 --> 02:20:40,720
and that's the same thing that you get

4076
02:20:44,550 --> 02:20:43,040
to when you meditate and do other things

4077
02:20:46,150 --> 02:20:44,560
it's just they're getting it without any

4078
02:20:47,830 --> 02:20:46,160
useful context i see i see

4079
02:20:50,150 --> 02:20:47,840
and when they come back they feel more

4080
02:20:52,870 --> 02:20:50,160
spiritual they feel more

4081
02:20:54,389 --> 02:20:52,880
relaxed maybe and more expansive and

4082
02:20:57,349 --> 02:20:54,399
they have these feelings

4083
02:20:57,990 --> 02:20:57,359
for a while and basically family could

4084
02:21:00,790 --> 02:20:58,000
say yeah they're

4085
02:21:01,750 --> 02:21:00,800
calmer now they're more uh sedate you

4086
02:21:03,910 --> 02:21:01,760
know they're not as

4087
02:21:05,510 --> 02:21:03,920
raucous or they're not as bad behaved

4088
02:21:07,510 --> 02:21:05,520
and that's probably true for a while but

4089
02:21:14,950 --> 02:21:07,520
it tends to wear off

4090
02:21:16,550 --> 02:21:14,960
again if it just means that they're

4091
02:21:17,830 --> 02:21:16,560
acting better okay maybe they you know

4092
02:21:19,830 --> 02:21:17,840
it's maybe like the thing where you're

4093
02:21:20,389 --> 02:21:19,840
you know you're afraid of god so you act

4094
02:21:22,070 --> 02:21:20,399
better

4095
02:21:23,590 --> 02:21:22,080
maybe when they see this big picture and

4096
02:21:25,429 --> 02:21:23,600
they see reality and they kind of see

4097
02:21:27,510 --> 02:21:25,439
their place in it they go oh

4098
02:21:28,950 --> 02:21:27,520
i need to clean up my act i need to act

4099
02:21:31,190 --> 02:21:28,960
better but again

4100
02:21:32,950 --> 02:21:31,200
if it's acting the family would be

4101
02:21:33,830 --> 02:21:32,960
appreciated acting is like i say a

4102
02:21:35,990 --> 02:21:33,840
civilization

4103
02:21:37,030 --> 02:21:36,000
civilizing family would say oh great

4104
02:21:38,870 --> 02:21:37,040
he's acting better

4105
02:21:41,030 --> 02:21:38,880
but did he really get anything useful

4106
02:21:43,110 --> 02:21:41,040
out of it other than

4107
02:21:44,230 --> 02:21:43,120
he's acting better well acting better is

4108
02:21:47,349 --> 02:21:44,240
that much

4109
02:21:49,510 --> 02:21:47,359
it's huge

4110
02:21:51,190 --> 02:21:49,520
compared to that compared to the acting

4111
02:21:53,830 --> 02:21:51,200
we are not our image

4112
02:21:55,429 --> 02:21:53,840
we are something else if one was simply

4113
02:21:56,150 --> 02:21:55,439
acting better would they feel more

4114
02:21:58,230 --> 02:21:56,160
tranquil

4115
02:21:59,349 --> 02:21:58,240
or would they feel the same no they

4116
02:22:01,590 --> 02:21:59,359
would probably feel

4117
02:22:02,389 --> 02:22:01,600
more tranquil even if they were simply

4118
02:22:04,230 --> 02:22:02,399
acting better

4119
02:22:05,590 --> 02:22:04,240
for the wrong reasons yeah they would

4120
02:22:06,469 --> 02:22:05,600
feel better because in their mind

4121
02:22:08,550 --> 02:22:06,479
they're saying

4122
02:22:10,309 --> 02:22:08,560
see i was so uptight and i'm tense and

4123
02:22:12,550 --> 02:22:10,319
i'm you know make other people tense

4124
02:22:13,750 --> 02:22:12,560
i'm just going to relax i'm just going

4125
02:22:15,670 --> 02:22:13,760
to be still

4126
02:22:17,110 --> 02:22:15,680
and i'll be quiet i won't talk so much

4127
02:22:18,710 --> 02:22:17,120
i'll listen more

4128
02:22:20,550 --> 02:22:18,720
well that's the intellect telling them

4129
02:22:23,750 --> 02:22:20,560
how it is they should be

4130
02:22:25,429 --> 02:22:23,760
so that's how they are

4131
02:22:27,349 --> 02:22:25,439
that's what they do and something comes

4132
02:22:29,190 --> 02:22:27,359
into contrary to that they push it

4133
02:22:30,790 --> 02:22:29,200
they push it away they bury it someplace

4134
02:22:33,110 --> 02:22:30,800
so yes they would act better

4135
02:22:35,190 --> 02:22:33,120
they'd feel better but what happens is

4136
02:22:38,309 --> 02:22:35,200
when you're acting

4137
02:22:39,670 --> 02:22:38,319
the real you comes out you see the real

4138
02:22:42,309 --> 02:22:39,680
you still in there

4139
02:22:43,510 --> 02:22:42,319
and when circumstances change to where

4140
02:22:45,270 --> 02:22:43,520
let's say

4141
02:22:46,790 --> 02:22:45,280
suddenly that person finds themselves in

4142
02:22:50,150 --> 02:22:46,800
a situation that

4143
02:22:52,150 --> 02:22:50,160
is very unpleasant well all that acting

4144
02:22:55,030 --> 02:22:52,160
goes to hell in the handbasket

4145
02:22:56,309 --> 02:22:55,040
that real person comes roaring out of

4146
02:22:58,309 --> 02:22:56,319
that situation

4147
02:22:59,349 --> 02:22:58,319
and oh well there's the same old person

4148
02:23:02,389 --> 02:22:59,359
we used to know

4149
02:23:03,830 --> 02:23:02,399
still in there mean as ever you see

4150
02:23:07,270 --> 02:23:03,840
do they come out permanently or they

4151
02:23:08,950 --> 02:23:07,280
just appear in that negative scenario

4152
02:23:10,630 --> 02:23:08,960
they probably appear in that scenario

4153
02:23:14,150 --> 02:23:10,640
and then they go back to acting

4154
02:23:17,110 --> 02:23:14,160
it's just that you know that acting

4155
02:23:18,469 --> 02:23:17,120
isn't deep so what's wrong with that is

4156
02:23:21,190 --> 02:23:18,479
that if we

4157
02:23:22,630 --> 02:23:21,200
zoom out to the npr picture the entropy

4158
02:23:24,630 --> 02:23:22,640
has not been lowered in your

4159
02:23:25,910 --> 02:23:24,640
model yeah right so what happens you

4160
02:23:27,030 --> 02:23:25,920
know that's like you have a bunch of

4161
02:23:28,710 --> 02:23:27,040
people who all live

4162
02:23:31,110 --> 02:23:28,720
in a nice community and they all get

4163
02:23:32,469 --> 02:23:31,120
along and things work out fine

4164
02:23:34,389 --> 02:23:32,479
you know yeah everything's hard

4165
02:23:35,190 --> 02:23:34,399
everybody's pressed hard everybody's

4166
02:23:38,389 --> 02:23:35,200
stressed

4167
02:23:39,750 --> 02:23:38,399
and then what happens uh you know a ride

4168
02:23:43,429 --> 02:23:39,760
takes place

4169
02:23:45,750 --> 02:23:43,439
and you'll find that people nice people

4170
02:23:46,950 --> 02:23:45,760
people you know who you'd think riot

4171
02:23:48,710 --> 02:23:46,960
sticks

4172
02:23:50,710 --> 02:23:48,720
riot takes place you know somebody bombs

4173
02:23:53,030 --> 02:23:50,720
something and pretty soon you have

4174
02:23:54,550 --> 02:23:53,040
nice people are running in and grabbing

4175
02:23:56,469 --> 02:23:54,560
tvs and running off with them

4176
02:23:58,830 --> 02:23:56,479
they're uh you know they're joining a

4177
02:24:02,469 --> 02:23:58,840
mob and you know throwing rocks through

4178
02:24:03,830 --> 02:24:02,479
windows perfectly nice people last week

4179
02:24:05,270 --> 02:24:03,840
you know they would go out of their way

4180
02:24:06,150 --> 02:24:05,280
to be helpful to some money but right

4181
02:24:08,950 --> 02:24:06,160
now

4182
02:24:09,910 --> 02:24:08,960
well you see that's not true and i

4183
02:24:11,830 --> 02:24:09,920
totally understand

4184
02:24:13,670 --> 02:24:11,840
that's not two different people it's the

4185
02:24:16,790 --> 02:24:13,680
same person one person has

4186
02:24:17,270 --> 02:24:16,800
has an image they're nice but underneath

4187
02:24:19,590 --> 02:24:17,280
of that

4188
02:24:20,550 --> 02:24:19,600
there's something a lot raw that's the

4189
02:24:23,270 --> 02:24:20,560
problem with

4190
02:24:24,950 --> 02:24:23,280
civilization in our civilization we're

4191
02:24:25,910 --> 02:24:24,960
nice and polite we've learned how to be

4192
02:24:31,110 --> 02:24:25,920
polite

4193
02:24:33,190 --> 02:24:31,120
that is a

4194
02:24:35,590 --> 02:24:33,200
that's a very thin veneer of politeness

4195
02:24:37,670 --> 02:24:35,600
underneath that is the real person

4196
02:24:39,510 --> 02:24:37,680
and when the going gets tough that real

4197
02:24:40,469 --> 02:24:39,520
person comes out that politeness goes

4198
02:24:42,710 --> 02:24:40,479
away

4199
02:24:44,469 --> 02:24:42,720
and that's the real us that's what

4200
02:24:46,630 --> 02:24:44,479
happens when things go bad

4201
02:24:48,070 --> 02:24:46,640
in an extremely practical scenario let's

4202
02:24:49,910 --> 02:24:48,080
say you have a toddler

4203
02:24:51,190 --> 02:24:49,920
okay and you said what we do is we

4204
02:24:53,190 --> 02:24:51,200
reprimand them and say hey

4205
02:24:54,710 --> 02:24:53,200
please act in this manner and then they

4206
02:24:55,190 --> 02:24:54,720
don't understand the reasons why they

4207
02:24:56,790 --> 02:24:55,200
just know

4208
02:24:58,870 --> 02:24:56,800
i might get hit if i don't or i'll get

4209
02:25:01,110 --> 02:24:58,880
yelled at or scolded okay

4210
02:25:02,309 --> 02:25:01,120
what would be a more effective way of

4211
02:25:03,910 --> 02:25:02,319
raising

4212
02:25:06,950 --> 02:25:03,920
let's say a three-year-old to

4213
02:25:13,270 --> 02:25:10,230
you would have to treat them with

4214
02:25:14,309 --> 02:25:13,280
respect you'd have to see them as a

4215
02:25:15,990 --> 02:25:14,319
little person

4216
02:25:18,070 --> 02:25:16,000
deserving your respect and you have to

4217
02:25:18,389 --> 02:25:18,080
interact with them on their level where

4218
02:25:22,230 --> 02:25:18,399
they

4219
02:25:24,790 --> 02:25:22,240
is

4220
02:25:25,990 --> 02:25:24,800
really annoying or rude or you know not

4221
02:25:27,990 --> 02:25:26,000
not good

4222
02:25:30,070 --> 02:25:28,000
you'd have to stop them but rather than

4223
02:25:32,469 --> 02:25:30,080
just holler and stop that

4224
02:25:34,710 --> 02:25:32,479
see that's not that helpful right right

4225
02:25:38,070 --> 02:25:34,720
you'd have to get down on their level

4226
02:25:39,190 --> 02:25:38,080
and and uh

4227
02:25:40,950 --> 02:25:39,200
interact with them you're not going to

4228
02:25:42,550 --> 02:25:40,960
give them a lecture because at three or

4229
02:25:44,230 --> 02:25:42,560
four years old you know lectures

4230
02:25:46,070 --> 02:25:44,240
don't work you know they're not going to

4231
02:25:47,110 --> 02:25:46,080
do much but you'd have to pay it's just

4232
02:25:48,790 --> 02:25:47,120
as bad as scolding

4233
02:25:50,230 --> 02:25:48,800
yeah you'd have to pick them up yeah

4234
02:25:52,070 --> 02:25:50,240
you'd have to pick them up

4235
02:25:53,830 --> 02:25:52,080
or stop what they were doing maybe if

4236
02:25:55,830 --> 02:25:53,840
they were banging you know something

4237
02:25:58,070 --> 02:25:55,840
on a window glass and you'd have to say

4238
02:26:01,110 --> 02:25:58,080
no we don't do that

4239
02:26:02,630 --> 02:26:01,120
because you could break the glass so

4240
02:26:04,070 --> 02:26:02,640
it's not a good thing to do

4241
02:26:06,150 --> 02:26:04,080
and you explain to them not that you're

4242
02:26:09,830 --> 02:26:06,160
angry see as soon as you're angry stop

4243
02:26:12,710 --> 02:26:09,840
that well you know they

4244
02:26:14,230 --> 02:26:12,720
they kind of put up a wall to that so

4245
02:26:16,309 --> 02:26:14,240
you have to be

4246
02:26:17,590 --> 02:26:16,319
calm you have to really care about them

4247
02:26:18,950 --> 02:26:17,600
and so there's a little person in here

4248
02:26:20,950 --> 02:26:18,960
that really doesn't know

4249
02:26:22,230 --> 02:26:20,960
that they're being destructive so we

4250
02:26:25,349 --> 02:26:22,240
have to treat them

4251
02:26:27,510 --> 02:26:25,359
kindly but we have to tell them no you

4252
02:26:29,270 --> 02:26:27,520
cannot do that you might break something

4253
02:26:31,270 --> 02:26:29,280
and then we let them go they do it again

4254
02:26:33,190 --> 02:26:31,280
we tell them that again

4255
02:26:34,870 --> 02:26:33,200
and then if they say after the fifth

4256
02:26:36,469 --> 02:26:34,880
time we decide well we're going to have

4257
02:26:38,150 --> 02:26:36,479
to do something more than talk to them

4258
02:26:40,469 --> 02:26:38,160
so this time we make them

4259
02:26:42,389 --> 02:26:40,479
you know go back in their crib for you

4260
02:26:43,750 --> 02:26:42,399
know 15 minutes or

4261
02:26:45,910 --> 02:26:43,760
some other kind of thing or you just

4262
02:26:48,389 --> 02:26:45,920
hold them don't let them down

4263
02:26:50,389 --> 02:26:48,399
until they so it's difficult but you

4264
02:26:52,550 --> 02:26:50,399
have to do it with

4265
02:26:54,469 --> 02:26:52,560
caring and with love and at their level

4266
02:26:56,150 --> 02:26:54,479
you can't do it

4267
02:26:57,750 --> 02:26:56,160
with the idea that they need to learn

4268
02:26:59,590 --> 02:26:57,760
how to act like you act

4269
02:27:01,349 --> 02:26:59,600
you know they need to be adult they need

4270
02:27:02,230 --> 02:27:01,359
to be more adult and we just holler at

4271
02:27:05,030 --> 02:27:02,240
them and we use

4272
02:27:06,710 --> 02:27:05,040
fear to control them don't do that or

4273
02:27:08,550 --> 02:27:06,720
you get us banking don't do that or you

4274
02:27:09,190 --> 02:27:08,560
be in time out so we try to frighten

4275
02:27:11,429 --> 02:27:09,200
them

4276
02:27:12,630 --> 02:27:11,439
into doing what we want well using fear

4277
02:27:14,630 --> 02:27:12,640
to control them

4278
02:27:16,230 --> 02:27:14,640
is not a good way to bring them up you

4279
02:27:19,030 --> 02:27:16,240
bring them up with love and one day

4280
02:27:22,469 --> 02:27:19,040
they will realize oh my parents don't

4281
02:27:25,830 --> 02:27:24,230
i shouldn't do it because my parents are

4282
02:27:27,990 --> 02:27:25,840
pretty smart and they know

4283
02:27:29,510 --> 02:27:28,000
they know what's good because they trust

4284
02:27:31,590 --> 02:27:29,520
you because they've always gotten

4285
02:27:33,030 --> 02:27:31,600
support from you you know it's a it's a

4286
02:27:34,230 --> 02:27:33,040
different sort of thing so with real

4287
02:27:35,830 --> 02:27:34,240
little children

4288
02:27:37,510 --> 02:27:35,840
it's hard because they only can

4289
02:27:39,510 --> 02:27:37,520
understand so much

4290
02:27:40,710 --> 02:27:39,520
so you expect a lot of behave bad

4291
02:27:43,910 --> 02:27:40,720
behavior

4292
02:27:45,429 --> 02:27:43,920
is okay you gotta you gotta deal with

4293
02:27:46,469 --> 02:27:45,439
that don't give him toys it'll break

4294
02:27:48,550 --> 02:27:46,479
glass

4295
02:27:50,469 --> 02:27:48,560
see i'm running a simulation in my head

4296
02:27:53,830 --> 02:27:50,479
and i see oh like a simulation

4297
02:27:55,750 --> 02:27:53,840
is in simulation and i find it hard

4298
02:27:57,030 --> 02:27:55,760
to get to an answer as to why we should

4299
02:27:59,270 --> 02:27:57,040
act right

4300
02:28:00,230 --> 02:27:59,280
quote unquote without making a reference

4301
02:28:01,910 --> 02:28:00,240
to one's ego

4302
02:28:03,830 --> 02:28:01,920
which is what we're saying we should get

4303
02:28:05,190 --> 02:28:03,840
rid of or the fear we should get rid of

4304
02:28:06,309 --> 02:28:05,200
and the reason why is let's imagine

4305
02:28:07,750 --> 02:28:06,319
there's a three-year-old four-year-old

4306
02:28:09,830 --> 02:28:07,760
child and you say don't

4307
02:28:11,270 --> 02:28:09,840
break that glass but don't hit that

4308
02:28:12,790 --> 02:28:11,280
because the glass may break well why

4309
02:28:13,990 --> 02:28:12,800
should i care about the glass breaking

4310
02:28:15,030 --> 02:28:14,000
because it might fall on the ground well

4311
02:28:16,309 --> 02:28:15,040
why should i care about that someone

4312
02:28:17,590 --> 02:28:16,319
else has to pay for it and they also

4313
02:28:18,469 --> 02:28:17,600
might get hurt well why should i care

4314
02:28:21,429 --> 02:28:18,479
about that

4315
02:28:23,190 --> 02:28:21,439
eventually i would imagine in your model

4316
02:28:24,469 --> 02:28:23,200
but this is just me imagining

4317
02:28:26,070 --> 02:28:24,479
it would come down to don't do that

4318
02:28:27,429 --> 02:28:26,080
because that's ultimately bad for you as

4319
02:28:29,030 --> 02:28:27,439
well

4320
02:28:30,469 --> 02:28:29,040
sure they would learn they would learn

4321
02:28:31,910 --> 02:28:30,479
that it's part you know we're all here

4322
02:28:33,510 --> 02:28:31,920
but then to me that's that's an appeal

4323
02:28:34,870 --> 02:28:33,520
to an ego no because they're saying

4324
02:28:36,790 --> 02:28:34,880
don't do this because it's bad for you

4325
02:28:38,790 --> 02:28:36,800
no what what you would do is say that

4326
02:28:40,309 --> 02:28:38,800
we're all here together

4327
02:28:42,070 --> 02:28:40,319
and it is going to be bad for them but

4328
02:28:44,309 --> 02:28:42,080
that's not the the key point

4329
02:28:46,070 --> 02:28:44,319
it's that we all live here together we

4330
02:28:48,070 --> 02:28:46,080
all share this space

4331
02:28:49,429 --> 02:28:48,080
we all have to look out for each other

4332
02:28:51,670 --> 02:28:49,439
you know that's the thing

4333
02:28:53,270 --> 02:28:51,680
if you break that glass then you might

4334
02:28:55,110 --> 02:28:53,280
step in it and cut your foot and mom

4335
02:28:56,389 --> 02:28:55,120
might step in and cut her foot that cold

4336
02:28:58,150 --> 02:28:56,399
air would come in and we would be

4337
02:28:59,510 --> 02:28:58,160
uncomfortable bugs would come in and we

4338
02:29:02,389 --> 02:28:59,520
wouldn't like that

4339
02:29:04,150 --> 02:29:02,399
so it's going to be a problem for

4340
02:29:05,910 --> 02:29:04,160
everybody that lives here

4341
02:29:09,590 --> 02:29:05,920
and you know and it's going to be a

4342
02:29:11,349 --> 02:29:09,600
problem for you too so okay

4343
02:29:12,710 --> 02:29:11,359
but it's everybody's problem now you'd

4344
02:29:14,389 --> 02:29:12,720
have to have a kid that was more like

4345
02:29:15,429 --> 02:29:14,399
six or seven years old before they

4346
02:29:17,830 --> 02:29:15,439
understand that

4347
02:29:18,790 --> 02:29:17,840
if it's a three-year-old basically or a

4348
02:29:20,309 --> 02:29:18,800
two-year-old

4349
02:29:22,389 --> 02:29:20,319
what you do is you take the thing that

4350
02:29:24,150 --> 02:29:22,399
can break glass out of their hands

4351
02:29:26,630 --> 02:29:24,160
yeah because it's not an appropriate toy

4352
02:29:28,550 --> 02:29:26,640
for them right if they've got a hammer

4353
02:29:30,150 --> 02:29:28,560
they're not old enough to have a hammer

4354
02:29:31,429 --> 02:29:30,160
even okay so let's talk about this

4355
02:29:33,429 --> 02:29:31,439
we'll talk about a six-year-old or a

4356
02:29:34,550 --> 02:29:33,439
five-year-old incessantly asks why what

4357
02:29:37,750 --> 02:29:34,560
if they say so why

4358
02:29:38,309 --> 02:29:37,760
should i care about that it's bad for my

4359
02:29:39,750 --> 02:29:38,319
family

4360
02:29:42,070 --> 02:29:39,760
and it seems like it's obvious like i

4361
02:29:44,950 --> 02:29:42,080
should care but i'm i'm being a

4362
02:29:45,429 --> 02:29:44,960
particularly persnickety six-year-old no

4363
02:29:47,510 --> 02:29:45,439
you can

4364
02:29:49,429 --> 02:29:47,520
yes you would say well this is a problem

4365
02:29:51,110 --> 02:29:49,439
for everyone okay you leave your dirty

4366
02:29:52,309 --> 02:29:51,120
clothes all over the room then somebody

4367
02:29:54,630 --> 02:29:52,319
has to pick them up

4368
02:29:55,510 --> 02:29:54,640
and it's just extra chores that we need

4369
02:29:57,510 --> 02:29:55,520
to do

4370
02:29:59,110 --> 02:29:57,520
and if we're doing those tours we can't

4371
02:30:02,389 --> 02:29:59,120
be playing with you

4372
02:30:04,550 --> 02:30:02,399
or you know right that's why it comes

4373
02:30:05,750 --> 02:30:04,560
down to the ego no no it affects it's

4374
02:30:08,230 --> 02:30:05,760
not their ego

4375
02:30:10,070 --> 02:30:08,240
it's their caring that you're trying to

4376
02:30:10,950 --> 02:30:10,080
hit not their ego you're not trying to

4377
02:30:12,950 --> 02:30:10,960
make them

4378
02:30:14,070 --> 02:30:12,960
afraid and you're not getting to their

4379
02:30:17,270 --> 02:30:14,080
ego it's not that

4380
02:30:18,950 --> 02:30:17,280
oh that's good for me but it's i'm a

4381
02:30:20,309 --> 02:30:18,960
part of this thing it's good for all of

4382
02:30:22,309 --> 02:30:20,319
us it's good for me

4383
02:30:24,230 --> 02:30:22,319
and it's good for them they need to see

4384
02:30:26,790 --> 02:30:24,240
themselves as a part of a whole

4385
02:30:28,309 --> 02:30:26,800
not as just an individual now children

4386
02:30:31,030 --> 02:30:28,319
come into this world

4387
02:30:33,110 --> 02:30:31,040
very self-centered that's the nature of

4388
02:30:36,070 --> 02:30:33,120
being a child you are very small

4389
02:30:37,429 --> 02:30:36,080
you are very vulnerable and you are you

4390
02:30:39,670 --> 02:30:37,439
and then there's everything else out

4391
02:30:42,230 --> 02:30:39,680
there in that big world that scary world

4392
02:30:43,190 --> 02:30:42,240
so children are very self-centered and

4393
02:30:46,790 --> 02:30:43,200
we could

4394
02:30:49,429 --> 02:30:46,800
say that maturity is defined

4395
02:30:51,429 --> 02:30:49,439
as how much of that self-centeredness

4396
02:30:53,670 --> 02:30:51,439
you get rid of

4397
02:30:55,030 --> 02:30:53,680
so that's how you mature it's how you

4398
02:30:57,270 --> 02:30:55,040
grow up is by

4399
02:30:58,550 --> 02:30:57,280
reducing that self-centeredness well

4400
02:31:01,750 --> 02:30:58,560
that's reducing that

4401
02:31:03,750 --> 02:31:01,760
that ego so that's

4402
02:31:05,110 --> 02:31:03,760
you know you can have some people are 60

4403
02:31:06,309 --> 02:31:05,120
years old and they're still terribly

4404
02:31:08,870 --> 02:31:06,319
self-centered

4405
02:31:09,670 --> 02:31:08,880
you know that's they haven't grown up

4406
02:31:11,990 --> 02:31:09,680
much they're still

4407
02:31:13,910 --> 02:31:12,000
they're still acting like children so

4408
02:31:15,270 --> 02:31:13,920
children should be expected to be very

4409
02:31:17,429 --> 02:31:15,280
self-centered

4410
02:31:18,710 --> 02:31:17,439
that's natural for children and you

4411
02:31:20,870 --> 02:31:18,720
don't punish them for being

4412
02:31:22,790 --> 02:31:20,880
self-centered it's just who they are

4413
02:31:24,469 --> 02:31:22,800
you have to show them that they're part

4414
02:31:25,910 --> 02:31:24,479
of a bigger thing

4415
02:31:28,710 --> 02:31:25,920
they're part of a collective called a

4416
02:31:31,670 --> 02:31:28,720
family and they need to take

4417
02:31:33,750 --> 02:31:31,680
that into consideration and if that

4418
02:31:35,110 --> 02:31:33,760
family is working well together and the

4419
02:31:38,790 --> 02:31:35,120
family is working

4420
02:31:41,349 --> 02:31:38,800
then their life is going to be happier

4421
02:31:42,710 --> 02:31:41,359
but if they're you know if the family

4422
02:31:43,990 --> 02:31:42,720
isn't working together then their life

4423
02:31:45,670 --> 02:31:44,000
isn't going to be through well so it

4424
02:31:47,830 --> 02:31:45,680
does affect them

4425
02:31:49,270 --> 02:31:47,840
ah okay but they'll see themselves as

4426
02:31:52,150 --> 02:31:49,280
part of something bigger

4427
02:31:53,270 --> 02:31:52,160
it's not just about them so if i care

4428
02:31:55,190 --> 02:31:53,280
about the positive

4429
02:31:56,710 --> 02:31:55,200
that's not necessarily my ego but if i

4430
02:31:57,349 --> 02:31:56,720
care about the negative or fear that's

4431
02:31:59,190 --> 02:31:57,359
my ego

4432
02:32:00,790 --> 02:31:59,200
so for example if i care about i want to

4433
02:32:01,910 --> 02:32:00,800
be happy i would associate that with the

4434
02:32:04,150 --> 02:32:01,920
ego still because

4435
02:32:05,910 --> 02:32:04,160
you care about yourself in some way even

4436
02:32:08,950 --> 02:32:05,920
if it's i want to be happy that's not

4437
02:32:12,710 --> 02:32:08,960
that's not ego no ego is

4438
02:32:14,870 --> 02:32:12,720
awareness in the service of fear

4439
02:32:16,389 --> 02:32:14,880
remember consciousness is awareness that

4440
02:32:19,510 --> 02:32:16,399
makes choices

4441
02:32:21,990 --> 02:32:19,520
so awareness in the service of fear

4442
02:32:22,870 --> 02:32:22,000
that's ego if it's not in the service of

4443
02:32:24,870 --> 02:32:22,880
fear

4444
02:32:26,550 --> 02:32:24,880
that's not ego now awareness in the

4445
02:32:28,469 --> 02:32:26,560
service of love

4446
02:32:30,070 --> 02:32:28,479
that's what freud sort of roughly

4447
02:32:33,429 --> 02:32:30,080
defined as superego

4448
02:32:35,590 --> 02:32:33,439
okay it's about other it's it's not

4449
02:32:37,349 --> 02:32:35,600
just about self so you can say oh i'd

4450
02:32:39,910 --> 02:32:37,359
like to be better i'd like to

4451
02:32:41,429 --> 02:32:39,920
become love and now that's awareness in

4452
02:32:43,990 --> 02:32:41,439
the service of growing up

4453
02:32:45,590 --> 02:32:44,000
okay i like this because most of the

4454
02:32:46,230 --> 02:32:45,600
problems with me that i find and i'm

4455
02:32:48,230 --> 02:32:46,240
pretty sure that

4456
02:32:49,510 --> 02:32:48,240
many people have the same problem is

4457
02:32:51,670 --> 02:32:49,520
that some of these terms

4458
02:32:53,270 --> 02:32:51,680
the way they're used not you but the way

4459
02:32:55,190 --> 02:32:53,280
that they're used in general power lines

4460
02:32:56,389 --> 02:32:55,200
is equivocal and so when you use it you

4461
02:32:58,870 --> 02:32:56,399
mean something specific

4462
02:33:00,469 --> 02:32:58,880
but when other people use it for example

4463
02:33:02,710 --> 02:33:00,479
they synonymize ego with

4464
02:33:04,389 --> 02:33:02,720
self and so that's why i'm having a bit

4465
02:33:07,990 --> 02:33:04,399
i was having a bit of trouble

4466
02:33:09,750 --> 02:33:08,000
and i see this even in well hopefully

4467
02:33:11,270 --> 02:33:09,760
hopefully this podcast if you ever see

4468
02:33:12,150 --> 02:33:11,280
me getting into the meticulous

4469
02:33:13,910 --> 02:33:12,160
intricacies

4470
02:33:15,270 --> 02:33:13,920
the reason is that i try to be as

4471
02:33:17,030 --> 02:33:15,280
specific as possible first to

4472
02:33:17,590 --> 02:33:17,040
disentangle what's what's embroiled in

4473
02:33:20,710 --> 02:33:17,600
my head

4474
02:33:21,349 --> 02:33:20,720
but also because many other podcasts or

4475
02:33:23,110 --> 02:33:21,359
many other

4476
02:33:24,870 --> 02:33:23,120
interviewers or whatever it may be when

4477
02:33:27,590 --> 02:33:24,880
they talk they talk at a certain

4478
02:33:28,150 --> 02:33:27,600
layman level and i feel like plenty of

4479
02:33:32,630 --> 02:33:28,160
the

4480
02:33:34,309 --> 02:33:32,640
and even in physics like you know this

4481
02:33:35,910 --> 02:33:34,319
at least for me there's plenty that was

4482
02:33:37,830 --> 02:33:35,920
difficult to understand because it was

4483
02:33:39,590 --> 02:33:37,840
told to me incorrectly so

4484
02:33:42,309 --> 02:33:39,600
we're taught physics chronologically

4485
02:33:44,630 --> 02:33:42,319
newton laplace and so on and so on

4486
02:33:45,990 --> 02:33:44,640
but there's so much in physics it's

4487
02:33:48,070 --> 02:33:46,000
wonderful if you're actually taught it

4488
02:33:49,830 --> 02:33:48,080
in its specificity so for example

4489
02:33:51,429 --> 02:33:49,840
velocity is a more fundamental concept

4490
02:33:53,110 --> 02:33:51,439
than speed and speed is a more

4491
02:33:54,790 --> 02:33:53,120
fundamental concept than distance which

4492
02:33:56,870 --> 02:33:54,800
is the opposite of what we're told

4493
02:33:57,990 --> 02:33:56,880
but if the viewer or whoever's listening

4494
02:33:58,870 --> 02:33:58,000
understands a bit of differential

4495
02:34:00,630 --> 02:33:58,880
geometry

4496
02:34:02,790 --> 02:34:00,640
you would know that velocity doesn't

4497
02:34:04,710 --> 02:34:02,800
require a metric speed requires a metric

4498
02:34:05,910 --> 02:34:04,720
so you need more structure to get speed

4499
02:34:07,510 --> 02:34:05,920
and then you need something called

4500
02:34:09,030 --> 02:34:07,520
partition of unity to integrate over

4501
02:34:10,469 --> 02:34:09,040
speed to get distance

4502
02:34:12,550 --> 02:34:10,479
and that's interest is totally

4503
02:34:13,030 --> 02:34:12,560
interesting but it trips you up if you

4504
02:34:14,550 --> 02:34:13,040
don't

4505
02:34:16,469 --> 02:34:14,560
it trips you up at the later years of

4506
02:34:17,190 --> 02:34:16,479
physics something else is uh the wave

4507
02:34:21,190 --> 02:34:17,200
function

4508
02:34:23,030 --> 02:34:21,200
section on a c

4509
02:34:24,710 --> 02:34:23,040
line bundle and you'll get into well i

4510
02:34:26,389 --> 02:34:24,720
got into plenty of trouble

4511
02:34:27,910 --> 02:34:26,399
thinking that it's a function because

4512
02:34:29,590 --> 02:34:27,920
then how are you supposed to do quantum

4513
02:34:31,110 --> 02:34:29,600
mechanics on a sphere

4514
02:34:32,630 --> 02:34:31,120
you have to have different open spaces

4515
02:34:33,910 --> 02:34:32,640
that you do yeah you have to

4516
02:34:36,710 --> 02:34:33,920
conceptualize it as a

4517
02:34:38,230 --> 02:34:36,720
as a section but anyway so hopefully i'm

4518
02:34:39,349 --> 02:34:38,240
kind of aware that all these things are

4519
02:34:41,910 --> 02:34:39,359
metaphors

4520
02:34:43,190 --> 02:34:41,920
there is no wave function they just say

4521
02:34:44,870 --> 02:34:43,200
wave function because they don't know

4522
02:34:47,349 --> 02:34:44,880
what else to say

4523
02:34:48,870 --> 02:34:47,359
physicists are mostly materialists and

4524
02:34:50,230 --> 02:34:48,880
they really don't like action at a

4525
02:34:53,190 --> 02:34:50,240
distance because

4526
02:34:54,150 --> 02:34:53,200
that's that's not materialistic you know

4527
02:34:56,070 --> 02:34:54,160
they they want

4528
02:34:57,190 --> 02:34:56,080
a trail from here to there of everything

4529
02:34:59,750 --> 02:34:57,200
that's why they generate

4530
02:35:01,429 --> 02:34:59,760
fields fields don't really exist you

4531
02:35:03,750 --> 02:35:01,439
know there are no fields

4532
02:35:04,630 --> 02:35:03,760
there's just information information

4533
02:35:08,230 --> 02:35:04,640
doesn't require

4534
02:35:13,670 --> 02:35:11,349
they will take a a they know that

4535
02:35:14,389 --> 02:35:13,680
okay we've got this particle and we

4536
02:35:16,070 --> 02:35:14,399
there's some

4537
02:35:17,830 --> 02:35:16,080
probability that it's going to manifest

4538
02:35:19,510 --> 02:35:17,840
someplace and they look at that

4539
02:35:21,670 --> 02:35:19,520
probability distribution

4540
02:35:22,870 --> 02:35:21,680
and they see how that works and then

4541
02:35:25,750 --> 02:35:22,880
they want to

4542
02:35:25,990 --> 02:35:25,760
make some kind of connection some kind

4543
02:35:28,710 --> 02:35:26,000
of

4544
02:35:29,750 --> 02:35:28,720
causal connection between the two and up

4545
02:35:32,790 --> 02:35:29,760
comes

4546
02:35:34,389 --> 02:35:32,800
a idea of a wave packet

4547
02:35:35,910 --> 02:35:34,399
and no nothing's waving it's a

4548
02:35:37,510 --> 02:35:35,920
probability wave

4549
02:35:39,990 --> 02:35:37,520
so it's just that they're probably in

4550
02:35:41,750 --> 02:35:40,000
this wave packet represents probability

4551
02:35:43,110 --> 02:35:41,760
all that's just metaphor it's stuff

4552
02:35:46,309 --> 02:35:43,120
they're making up

4553
02:35:49,429 --> 02:35:46,319
to allow them to create

4554
02:35:50,389 --> 02:35:49,439
a model in which to describe what's

4555
02:35:52,550 --> 02:35:50,399
going on

4556
02:35:54,150 --> 02:35:52,560
but particularly with quantum mechanics

4557
02:35:56,230 --> 02:35:54,160
when you try to get down into the

4558
02:35:58,070 --> 02:35:56,240
details of what is this wave function

4559
02:36:00,469 --> 02:35:58,080
it's just exactly what is this wave

4560
02:36:01,190 --> 02:36:00,479
function what's waving here what's the

4561
02:36:03,030 --> 02:36:01,200
function

4562
02:36:04,710 --> 02:36:03,040
you'll find it all falls apart because

4563
02:36:05,590 --> 02:36:04,720
there really isn't any such thing it's

4564
02:36:08,790 --> 02:36:05,600
just

4565
02:36:11,990 --> 02:36:08,800
a metaphor for the thing

4566
02:36:13,429 --> 02:36:12,000
that allows you to get from a to b what

4567
02:36:16,070 --> 02:36:13,439
you're calling a metaphor you mean

4568
02:36:17,270 --> 02:36:16,080
a model yeah okay it's just a model

4569
02:36:19,830 --> 02:36:17,280
something somebody

4570
02:36:21,429 --> 02:36:19,840
makes up you know all the things are

4571
02:36:24,710 --> 02:36:21,439
like that an electron

4572
02:36:26,870 --> 02:36:24,720
is a model it's a metaphor you know

4573
02:36:27,830 --> 02:36:26,880
we measure we say an electron is a

4574
02:36:30,710 --> 02:36:27,840
little

4575
02:36:32,790 --> 02:36:30,720
chunk of mass with a charge well that's

4576
02:36:35,190 --> 02:36:32,800
not an electron anymore that used to be

4577
02:36:37,030 --> 02:36:35,200
an electron before we understood better

4578
02:36:39,750 --> 02:36:37,040
now we know that electron is a point

4579
02:36:42,469 --> 02:36:39,760
with the attributes of mass and charge

4580
02:36:44,630 --> 02:36:42,479
see there's a difference so people who

4581
02:36:46,710 --> 02:36:44,640
measure let's say the original uh

4582
02:36:48,870 --> 02:36:46,720
was a milliken oil drop experiment back

4583
02:36:51,590 --> 02:36:48,880
in 1800s where they use a

4584
02:36:52,790 --> 02:36:51,600
you know two plates an electric field

4585
02:36:54,950 --> 02:36:52,800
oil drops they

4586
02:36:56,630 --> 02:36:54,960
decide that there's a charge on it and

4587
02:36:57,030 --> 02:36:56,640
they decide what the charge is you know

4588
02:37:00,710 --> 02:36:57,040
that's

4589
02:37:03,670 --> 02:37:00,720
e it's the charge of the electron well

4590
02:37:05,830 --> 02:37:03,680
what they measured wasn't an electron

4591
02:37:09,110 --> 02:37:05,840
they measured an effect

4592
02:37:10,309 --> 02:37:09,120
right they only measure effects and then

4593
02:37:11,990 --> 02:37:10,319
they make up a model

4594
02:37:13,510 --> 02:37:12,000
they make up a thing called an electro

4595
02:37:15,110 --> 02:37:13,520
let's call it an electron because we

4596
02:37:17,510 --> 02:37:15,120
believe in particles

4597
02:37:18,790 --> 02:37:17,520
so we'll make that an electron and it'll

4598
02:37:20,230 --> 02:37:18,800
have this charge and

4599
02:37:22,230 --> 02:37:20,240
to be a thing it has to have a little

4600
02:37:24,230 --> 02:37:22,240
chunk of mass well that doesn't work

4601
02:37:25,750 --> 02:37:24,240
quantum mechanics looks at electrons as

4602
02:37:27,030 --> 02:37:25,760
a chunk of mass with charge they can't

4603
02:37:28,710 --> 02:37:27,040
get anything right

4604
02:37:30,389 --> 02:37:28,720
they look at it as a point with

4605
02:37:33,510 --> 02:37:30,399
attributes of mass and charge

4606
02:37:34,630 --> 02:37:33,520
they can get the right answer so we find

4607
02:37:37,990 --> 02:37:34,640
out that there really

4608
02:37:41,590 --> 02:37:38,000
is no electron it's just a model

4609
02:37:45,030 --> 02:37:41,600
in order to explain the result

4610
02:37:47,590 --> 02:37:45,040
that they get so we make all sorts of

4611
02:37:49,590 --> 02:37:47,600
models and then the problem with that is

4612
02:37:51,030 --> 02:37:49,600
in the beginning people are aware that

4613
02:37:55,190 --> 02:37:51,040
these are just models

4614
02:37:57,830 --> 02:37:55,200
right things we make up in order to

4615
02:37:58,230 --> 02:37:57,840
have some way of you know of saying how

4616
02:38:11,590 --> 02:37:58,240
it

4617
02:38:13,590 --> 02:38:11,600
knows that

4618
02:38:15,750 --> 02:38:13,600
and it becomes dogma and then it becomes

4619
02:38:17,510 --> 02:38:15,760
a blind spot because it's a belief

4620
02:38:19,030 --> 02:38:17,520
and now we can't understand things

4621
02:38:20,469 --> 02:38:19,040
because they don't act that way and all

4622
02:38:23,349 --> 02:38:20,479
that's just weird physics you know

4623
02:38:25,590 --> 02:38:23,359
that weird quantum mechanics so the

4624
02:38:28,309 --> 02:38:25,600
problem is that we don't realize that

4625
02:38:28,630 --> 02:38:28,319
much much of the stuff that we think of

4626
02:38:32,150 --> 02:38:28,640
as

4627
02:38:34,870 --> 02:38:32,160
facts are not facts they're models

4628
02:38:36,469 --> 02:38:34,880
they're theory they're somebody has

4629
02:38:37,270 --> 02:38:36,479
reached up and brought right out of the

4630
02:38:40,950 --> 02:38:37,280
clear blue

4631
02:38:44,790 --> 02:38:40,960
sky a reason why

4632
02:38:45,990 --> 02:38:44,800
this could be the the causal link

4633
02:38:48,150 --> 02:38:46,000
you know the causal thing that's

4634
02:38:51,750 --> 02:38:48,160
happening because we believe in

4635
02:38:53,429 --> 02:38:51,760
physical causality material causality

4636
02:38:55,349 --> 02:38:53,439
because we're materialists we need a

4637
02:38:58,230 --> 02:38:55,359
material cause for things

4638
02:38:59,990 --> 02:38:58,240
when actually all we really need is

4639
02:39:00,870 --> 02:39:00,000
information so we don't have to have a

4640
02:39:03,590 --> 02:39:00,880
field

4641
02:39:04,309 --> 02:39:03,600
we just have a calculation of what the

4642
02:39:06,070 --> 02:39:04,319
force is

4643
02:39:07,349 --> 02:39:06,080
at this point and at that point and some

4644
02:39:09,990 --> 02:39:07,359
other point

4645
02:39:11,270 --> 02:39:10,000
then okay a field can predict those

4646
02:39:14,150 --> 02:39:11,280
measurements

4647
02:39:17,190 --> 02:39:14,160
but predicting them isn't causing them

4648
02:39:18,710 --> 02:39:17,200
they're caused by information

4649
02:39:21,110 --> 02:39:18,720
they're caused by being part of the rule

4650
02:39:22,469 --> 02:39:21,120
set that's the way this place works

4651
02:39:24,550 --> 02:39:22,479
it's a different way of looking at

4652
02:39:27,270 --> 02:39:24,560
things but but you you'll see that when

4653
02:39:28,950 --> 02:39:27,280
you get into the details of physics

4654
02:39:31,670 --> 02:39:28,960
often you'll run into things that are

4655
02:39:34,070 --> 02:39:31,680
hard to understand and hard to explain

4656
02:39:35,590 --> 02:39:34,080
and that's because mostly they're models

4657
02:39:37,429 --> 02:39:35,600
and we're trying to make them into

4658
02:39:41,349 --> 02:39:37,439
little physical things

4659
02:39:44,550 --> 02:39:41,359
and they're not they're just models

4660
02:39:48,389 --> 02:39:44,560
to try to draw a materialistic

4661
02:39:51,349 --> 02:39:48,399
description of how does this get to that

4662
02:39:53,830 --> 02:39:51,359
how do we end up with this result so we

4663
02:39:55,429 --> 02:39:53,840
easily you know we can do math math

4664
02:39:57,750 --> 02:39:55,439
we we write down math and then we

4665
02:39:59,830 --> 02:39:57,760
interpret the math as something physical

4666
02:40:01,030 --> 02:39:59,840
well most scientists i would say at

4667
02:40:01,830 --> 02:40:01,040
least if you're a good scientist you

4668
02:40:02,790 --> 02:40:01,840
should be what's called an

4669
02:40:04,550 --> 02:40:02,800
instrumentalist

4670
02:40:06,150 --> 02:40:04,560
that is you don't confuse your model for

4671
02:40:08,550 --> 02:40:06,160
reality you just say that

4672
02:40:10,309 --> 02:40:08,560
predicts and it's falsifiable and it

4673
02:40:11,429 --> 02:40:10,319
seems like every time we do so and so we

4674
02:40:13,510 --> 02:40:11,439
get this result and that's

4675
02:40:14,550 --> 02:40:13,520
exactly what the equations say exactly

4676
02:40:16,309 --> 02:40:14,560
it doesn't mean

4677
02:40:17,349 --> 02:40:16,319
well obviously as you know there are

4678
02:40:19,349 --> 02:40:17,359
plenty of concepts that have been

4679
02:40:21,990 --> 02:40:19,359
overturned over and over

4680
02:40:22,630 --> 02:40:22,000
but it's not just just to defend science

4681
02:40:24,309 --> 02:40:22,640
in general

4682
02:40:26,070 --> 02:40:24,319
it's not just models like someone makes

4683
02:40:28,230 --> 02:40:26,080
it up they do make it up but it's not

4684
02:40:31,269 --> 02:40:28,240
made up in the same way that the fairy

4685
02:40:33,030 --> 02:40:31,279
a fairy is made up or it's made up it's

4686
02:40:34,950 --> 02:40:33,040
made up as an explanation

4687
02:40:37,269 --> 02:40:34,960
and usually the explanation is driven by

4688
02:40:38,950 --> 02:40:37,279
materialism and we need a material cause

4689
02:40:40,389 --> 02:40:38,960
does that mean that there is no science

4690
02:40:42,950 --> 02:40:40,399
of consciousness because if

4691
02:40:44,710 --> 02:40:42,960
one is to presume consciousness is

4692
02:40:45,990 --> 02:40:44,720
non-material but we've heard this term

4693
02:40:47,190 --> 02:40:46,000
i'm sure you've heard this term and i've

4694
02:40:48,870 --> 02:40:47,200
interviewed other people who

4695
02:40:50,309 --> 02:40:48,880
claim to be studying the science of

4696
02:40:51,910 --> 02:40:50,319
consciousness are you saying that there

4697
02:40:53,349 --> 02:40:51,920
cannot be a science of consciousness

4698
02:40:55,190 --> 02:40:53,359
because science is just of the material

4699
02:40:56,790 --> 02:40:55,200
world no there is a science of

4700
02:40:58,230 --> 02:40:56,800
consciousness what we're saying is that

4701
02:41:01,750 --> 02:40:58,240
science

4702
02:41:05,110 --> 02:41:01,760
should not be relegated

4703
02:41:07,910 --> 02:41:05,120
or exclusive to objective world

4704
02:41:09,269 --> 02:41:07,920
there's a lot more to our reality than

4705
02:41:11,349 --> 02:41:09,279
the objective world

4706
02:41:12,790 --> 02:41:11,359
and if you take say only the objective

4707
02:41:14,950 --> 02:41:12,800
world can be science

4708
02:41:16,950 --> 02:41:14,960
then that means that consciousness can't

4709
02:41:18,790 --> 02:41:16,960
be science because it's subjective it's

4710
02:41:19,830 --> 02:41:18,800
conscious it's in a mind it's subjective

4711
02:41:21,510 --> 02:41:19,840
obviously

4712
02:41:23,110 --> 02:41:21,520
but i would say that of course you can

4713
02:41:24,230 --> 02:41:23,120
have a science of consciousness that

4714
02:41:26,870 --> 02:41:24,240
science

4715
02:41:28,309 --> 02:41:26,880
is applying logic to problems it's

4716
02:41:31,269 --> 02:41:28,319
making models

4717
02:41:32,389 --> 02:41:31,279
that work models that will explain

4718
02:41:34,230 --> 02:41:32,399
things

4719
02:41:35,429 --> 02:41:34,240
and if you can make a model and if it

4720
02:41:38,550 --> 02:41:35,439
explains

4721
02:41:41,750 --> 02:41:38,560
all of your personal facts that are in

4722
02:41:43,590 --> 02:41:41,760
your you know in your experience

4723
02:41:45,030 --> 02:41:43,600
then that's a good model and if it

4724
02:41:47,590 --> 02:41:45,040
predicts other facts

4725
02:41:49,030 --> 02:41:47,600
and and gives you structure in which you

4726
02:41:52,630 --> 02:41:49,040
can hang your experience

4727
02:41:55,429 --> 02:41:52,640
then that's a valid model and it's

4728
02:41:56,469 --> 02:41:55,439
scientific because it's based on logic

4729
02:41:58,150 --> 02:41:56,479
and it's

4730
02:41:59,510 --> 02:41:58,160
you know it's understandable it's

4731
02:42:01,190 --> 02:41:59,520
repeatable it's

4732
02:42:03,030 --> 02:42:01,200
it's whatever so sure there's a science

4733
02:42:05,110 --> 02:42:03,040
of consciousness now

4734
02:42:06,710 --> 02:42:05,120
many physicists would deny that they

4735
02:42:08,630 --> 02:42:06,720
would say that physics

4736
02:42:11,349 --> 02:42:08,640
chemistry and biology are the only

4737
02:42:13,750 --> 02:42:11,359
sciences there are and everything else

4738
02:42:14,710 --> 02:42:13,760
is soft science like have you heard of

4739
02:42:16,230 --> 02:42:14,720
daniel dennett

4740
02:42:17,990 --> 02:42:16,240
i mean obviously you've heard of daniel

4741
02:42:20,630 --> 02:42:18,000
have you read daniel dennis book

4742
02:42:21,429 --> 02:42:20,640
consciousness explained no i have not

4743
02:42:23,510 --> 02:42:21,439
read it

4744
02:42:24,630 --> 02:42:23,520
okay i was gonna ask your opinion on it

4745
02:42:27,510 --> 02:42:24,640
let's change gears

4746
02:42:28,630 --> 02:42:27,520
okay and go back to you having some

4747
02:42:31,030 --> 02:42:28,640
experiences with

4748
02:42:33,429 --> 02:42:31,040
npmr or mind space individuals i don't

4749
02:42:36,870 --> 02:42:33,439
know what else to call them

4750
02:42:39,110 --> 02:42:36,880
yeah just just the uh experience within

4751
02:42:40,070 --> 02:42:39,120
the larger consciousness system this

4752
02:42:43,110 --> 02:42:40,080
physical reality

4753
02:42:46,230 --> 02:42:43,120
just being one one subset

4754
02:42:48,150 --> 02:42:46,240
of that okay actually let's go back to

4755
02:42:50,230 --> 02:42:48,160
you debugging some code

4756
02:42:51,910 --> 02:42:50,240
are you suggesting that you were able to

4757
02:42:53,590 --> 02:42:51,920
see the code as if out of body

4758
02:42:54,950 --> 02:42:53,600
or are you suggesting that your memory

4759
02:42:56,550 --> 02:42:54,960
was much better than you thought and you

4760
02:42:57,190 --> 02:42:56,560
were able to see the code in your own

4761
02:42:58,309 --> 02:42:57,200
brain

4762
02:43:00,389 --> 02:42:58,319
sitting there in the chair because

4763
02:43:02,230 --> 02:43:00,399
you're in a deeply hypnotic meditative

4764
02:43:02,710 --> 02:43:02,240
state like which one are you suggesting

4765
02:43:04,710 --> 02:43:02,720
okay

4766
02:43:05,990 --> 02:43:04,720
then it's a little bit it's like the

4767
02:43:09,349 --> 02:43:06,000
second but more

4768
02:43:11,590 --> 02:43:09,359
so yes i could see the code and it would

4769
02:43:15,110 --> 02:43:11,600
it was scrolling by me just like i had a

4770
02:43:16,150 --> 02:43:15,120
uh you know a printout you know you get

4771
02:43:17,670 --> 02:43:16,160
printouts

4772
02:43:19,269 --> 02:43:17,680
and it was almost like it was on a

4773
02:43:20,950 --> 02:43:19,279
scroll and it was just going by and i

4774
02:43:21,429 --> 02:43:20,960
was seeing the live dakota they went by

4775
02:43:28,630 --> 02:43:21,439
and

4776
02:43:30,389 --> 02:43:28,640
look at that line of code

4777
02:43:32,389 --> 02:43:30,399
and because i wrote all the code i knew

4778
02:43:33,349 --> 02:43:32,399
exactly what each line represented and

4779
02:43:36,469 --> 02:43:33,359
where it was

4780
02:43:39,030 --> 02:43:36,479
and i say really that's the problem okay

4781
02:43:40,550 --> 02:43:39,040
and that's a problem now i might not

4782
02:43:42,790 --> 02:43:40,560
know what the problem was

4783
02:43:45,030 --> 02:43:42,800
but that line of code had a problem in

4784
02:43:45,750 --> 02:43:45,040
it so i'd go up there and i'd look at

4785
02:43:48,550 --> 02:43:45,760
that line

4786
02:43:49,190 --> 02:43:48,560
and if i couldn't find the problem i'd

4787
02:43:52,150 --> 02:43:49,200
check

4788
02:43:53,990 --> 02:43:52,160
i'd re-punch the card and seeing if the

4789
02:43:54,950 --> 02:43:54,000
same thing re-punched work because

4790
02:43:56,710 --> 02:43:54,960
perhaps it was

4791
02:43:58,070 --> 02:43:56,720
an error in printing there was an error

4792
02:44:00,790 --> 02:43:58,080
in the punching

4793
02:44:02,389 --> 02:44:00,800
yeah so i'd realize that and when i went

4794
02:44:05,429 --> 02:44:02,399
up and checked those lines

4795
02:44:06,950 --> 02:44:05,439
sure enough they all you know it worked

4796
02:44:07,910 --> 02:44:06,960
it worked perfectly all the ones that

4797
02:44:10,790 --> 02:44:07,920
were read

4798
02:44:12,469 --> 02:44:10,800
had errors in them so it is obviously

4799
02:44:13,990 --> 02:44:12,479
memory in the sense that i

4800
02:44:16,469 --> 02:44:14,000
could see all those lines i was very

4801
02:44:18,550 --> 02:44:16,479
familiar with them but it was more than

4802
02:44:19,750 --> 02:44:18,560
just memory because i was getting it and

4803
02:44:21,670 --> 02:44:19,760
it was scrolling

4804
02:44:22,790 --> 02:44:21,680
and if you'd asked me tell me what line

4805
02:44:23,990 --> 02:44:22,800
is above that one

4806
02:44:25,429 --> 02:44:24,000
i wouldn't have been able to tell you

4807
02:44:26,870 --> 02:44:25,439
what line was above that one you know

4808
02:44:28,230 --> 02:44:26,880
out of my memory

4809
02:44:30,070 --> 02:44:28,240
i couldn't have i couldn't have said

4810
02:44:32,630 --> 02:44:30,080
that i didn't have the whole you know

4811
02:44:34,630 --> 02:44:32,640
shoot i had like 4 000 cards i didn't

4812
02:44:36,630 --> 02:44:34,640
haul i didn't have any of that memorized

4813
02:44:38,469 --> 02:44:36,640
but they were scrolling by in the right

4814
02:44:40,870 --> 02:44:38,479
order and i could see them so you could

4815
02:44:42,389 --> 02:44:40,880
say well that was somewhere deep in your

4816
02:44:44,070 --> 02:44:42,399
you know in your subconscious and you

4817
02:44:46,790 --> 02:44:44,080
pulled that back up but

4818
02:44:48,550 --> 02:44:46,800
i find that the kind of a wild you know

4819
02:44:49,269 --> 02:44:48,560
conjecture no i'm not suggesting that at

4820
02:44:51,030 --> 02:44:49,279
all i'm actually

4821
02:44:53,750 --> 02:44:51,040
trying to visualize it so when you see

4822
02:44:55,990 --> 02:44:53,760
it are you seeing it

4823
02:44:56,870 --> 02:44:56,000
with a with a black background and it's

4824
02:44:58,950 --> 02:44:56,880
just the cards

4825
02:45:00,870 --> 02:44:58,960
are you seeing it as if you're not

4826
02:45:02,950 --> 02:45:00,880
pretty much a black background and just

4827
02:45:04,070 --> 02:45:02,960
just the lines going by and did you go

4828
02:45:06,790 --> 02:45:04,080
in with the intention

4829
02:45:08,230 --> 02:45:06,800
of wanting to debug or was that just the

4830
02:45:09,510 --> 02:45:08,240
experience that came to me it was a

4831
02:45:12,230 --> 02:45:09,520
fortuis

4832
02:45:14,070 --> 02:45:12,240
combination i was in i was meditating

4833
02:45:16,070 --> 02:45:14,080
and i also was thinking

4834
02:45:17,190 --> 02:45:16,080
about my code you know that is when you

4835
02:45:18,070 --> 02:45:17,200
when you work on something like

4836
02:45:19,910 --> 02:45:18,080
debugging

4837
02:45:21,110 --> 02:45:19,920
and it takes you you know you're working

4838
02:45:22,230 --> 02:45:21,120
on it over weeks

4839
02:45:23,910 --> 02:45:22,240
and you have this thing and you're

4840
02:45:25,349 --> 02:45:23,920
always constantly thinking what is the

4841
02:45:26,469 --> 02:45:25,359
what is the problem here you know what

4842
02:45:28,790 --> 02:45:26,479
isn't working

4843
02:45:30,710 --> 02:45:28,800
and i had that i was in a meditation and

4844
02:45:32,469 --> 02:45:30,720
i had that thought come up because

4845
02:45:33,830 --> 02:45:32,479
that's what and you also mentioned that

4846
02:45:35,510 --> 02:45:33,840
transcendental is much better

4847
02:45:37,510 --> 02:45:35,520
for people who have chaotic minds

4848
02:45:38,790 --> 02:45:37,520
because they don't have to stop

4849
02:45:40,630 --> 02:45:38,800
thinking in the same way that

4850
02:45:44,070 --> 02:45:40,640
mindfulness

4851
02:45:45,590 --> 02:45:44,080
wants to yeah they they

4852
02:45:47,590 --> 02:45:45,600
they're thinking but they're thinking

4853
02:45:49,269 --> 02:45:47,600
nonsense right they're thinking stuff

4854
02:45:50,950 --> 02:45:49,279
that's non-operable

4855
02:45:52,389 --> 02:45:50,960
you know something you can't operate on

4856
02:45:53,590 --> 02:45:52,399
something that the intellect can't do

4857
02:45:56,630 --> 02:45:53,600
anything with

4858
02:45:58,550 --> 02:45:56,640
you know just a meaningless sound yes

4859
02:46:00,309 --> 02:45:58,560
yes so that's right that's the thing so

4860
02:46:02,630 --> 02:46:00,319
you know if you're if your mantra was

4861
02:46:03,510 --> 02:46:02,640
a ham sandwich yes then that wouldn't

4862
02:46:06,710 --> 02:46:03,520
work because

4863
02:46:08,309 --> 02:46:06,720
how'd you know mine that wouldn't work

4864
02:46:08,790 --> 02:46:08,319
because you might get hungry or you

4865
02:46:10,790 --> 02:46:08,800
might

4866
02:46:13,190 --> 02:46:10,800
think that's why it's not working for me

4867
02:46:15,510 --> 02:46:13,200
okay okay so when i'm doing mine

4868
02:46:16,950 --> 02:46:15,520
sometimes i put my fingers together

4869
02:46:19,110 --> 02:46:16,960
sometimes i don't

4870
02:46:20,870 --> 02:46:19,120
does that matter because i see people

4871
02:46:21,510 --> 02:46:20,880
who traditionally they interlock certain

4872
02:46:25,030 --> 02:46:21,520
digits

4873
02:46:28,469 --> 02:46:25,040
right does it matter not really

4874
02:46:33,190 --> 02:46:28,479
does can it can it be a value

4875
02:46:36,309 --> 02:46:33,200
yes it can there's a lot of things

4876
02:46:38,469 --> 02:46:36,319
you know you're familiar with the

4877
02:46:40,630 --> 02:46:38,479
placebo effect

4878
02:46:41,590 --> 02:46:40,640
okay so if you think you're likely to

4879
02:46:43,269 --> 02:46:41,600
get better you

4880
02:46:44,790 --> 02:46:43,279
will get better if you think this is

4881
02:46:47,190 --> 02:46:44,800
going to help you

4882
02:46:48,230 --> 02:46:47,200
it possibly can help you and make it

4883
02:46:50,710 --> 02:46:48,240
work better

4884
02:46:52,950 --> 02:46:50,720
just because it makes your attitude more

4885
02:46:55,110 --> 02:46:52,960
positive toward it your intent becomes a

4886
02:46:57,510 --> 02:46:55,120
more positive intent toward the outcome

4887
02:46:59,670 --> 02:46:57,520
which actually then changes the outcome

4888
02:47:02,870 --> 02:46:59,680
yes it can be effective but it isn't

4889
02:47:03,269 --> 02:47:02,880
anything fundamental and you can open

4890
02:47:05,750 --> 02:47:03,279
this

4891
02:47:07,670 --> 02:47:05,760
circuit or close that circuit and it'll

4892
02:47:09,349 --> 02:47:07,680
feel a little different

4893
02:47:10,870 --> 02:47:09,359
you're just feeling in your body or you

4894
02:47:12,790 --> 02:47:10,880
can be lying there and you can touch

4895
02:47:14,309 --> 02:47:12,800
your feet together or pull them apart or

4896
02:47:16,710 --> 02:47:14,319
put your hands on your

4897
02:47:18,150 --> 02:47:16,720
on your legs or put your hands up here

4898
02:47:19,590 --> 02:47:18,160
and you can feel

4899
02:47:21,110 --> 02:47:19,600
a little different oh this feels

4900
02:47:22,870 --> 02:47:21,120
different the energy seems to flow

4901
02:47:23,910 --> 02:47:22,880
differently well that energy flowing

4902
02:47:26,950 --> 02:47:23,920
differently

4903
02:47:30,710 --> 02:47:26,960
is is this metaphorical your

4904
02:47:33,030 --> 02:47:30,720
your your differences are things that

4905
02:47:34,389 --> 02:47:33,040
you're looking for a difference and

4906
02:47:36,550 --> 02:47:34,399
you're finding one

4907
02:47:38,389 --> 02:47:36,560
you often look for the you often find

4908
02:47:41,590 --> 02:47:38,399
the things you're looking for

4909
02:47:43,510 --> 02:47:41,600
okay because you tend to

4910
02:47:44,950 --> 02:47:43,520
manifest them you create the stuff

4911
02:47:45,349 --> 02:47:44,960
you're looking for so if you could say

4912
02:47:46,950 --> 02:47:45,359
well

4913
02:47:48,950 --> 02:47:46,960
i'm going to test this and see how this

4914
02:47:50,309 --> 02:47:48,960
works and you'll find a little

4915
02:47:52,389 --> 02:47:50,319
difference there

4916
02:47:54,070 --> 02:47:52,399
you can turn it into a tool oh whenever

4917
02:47:56,150 --> 02:47:54,080
i put my fingers together like this i'll

4918
02:47:58,469 --> 02:47:56,160
be able to meditate real easily

4919
02:47:59,910 --> 02:47:58,479
now it becomes a tool and it's a thing

4920
02:48:02,070 --> 02:47:59,920
you can use to help

4921
02:48:03,910 --> 02:48:02,080
calm your mind so yes it works but no

4922
02:48:06,389 --> 02:48:03,920
it's not fundamental

4923
02:48:07,510 --> 02:48:06,399
it's not about the body the body's just

4924
02:48:09,910 --> 02:48:07,520
an avatar

4925
02:48:11,510 --> 02:48:09,920
the body is a picture on a screen he

4926
02:48:13,110 --> 02:48:11,520
mentioned that doing it lying down is

4927
02:48:16,309 --> 02:48:13,120
not as effective as sitting

4928
02:48:18,389 --> 02:48:16,319
and i'm wondering why is that the case

4929
02:48:20,710 --> 02:48:18,399
oh well most of the time i don't know

4930
02:48:23,429 --> 02:48:20,720
that i said that but i probably did

4931
02:48:25,990 --> 02:48:23,439
i would say it because for most people

4932
02:48:27,750 --> 02:48:26,000
lying down

4933
02:48:29,670 --> 02:48:27,760
ends up falling asleep or losing

4934
02:48:30,070 --> 02:48:29,680
consciousness whereas sitting up is much

4935
02:48:32,710 --> 02:48:30,080
harder

4936
02:48:34,469 --> 02:48:32,720
to do that so often people have a

4937
02:48:36,070 --> 02:48:34,479
problem with they start to meditate and

4938
02:48:38,309 --> 02:48:36,080
then they end up falling asleep

4939
02:48:39,910 --> 02:48:38,319
if you sit up that's less likely to

4940
02:48:42,950 --> 02:48:39,920
happen for you who's

4941
02:48:44,469 --> 02:48:42,960
an expert in this can you get to a state

4942
02:48:47,190 --> 02:48:44,479
where you visit mind space or

4943
02:48:47,910 --> 02:48:47,200
npmr with lying down and doing your

4944
02:48:51,110 --> 02:48:47,920
mantra

4945
02:48:53,190 --> 02:48:51,120
get there in

4946
02:48:54,389 --> 02:48:53,200
less than a tenth of a second while i'm

4947
02:48:55,830 --> 02:48:54,399
doing anything

4948
02:48:58,230 --> 02:48:55,840
that's because you practice it for so

4949
02:49:00,150 --> 02:48:58,240
long yeah sure

4950
02:49:01,910 --> 02:49:00,160
it's just uh getting into these other

4951
02:49:03,910 --> 02:49:01,920
spaces is just shifting your intent to

4952
02:49:06,070 --> 02:49:03,920
another data stream

4953
02:49:08,550 --> 02:49:06,080
how long does it take you to go from uh

4954
02:49:10,830 --> 02:49:08,560
you know the sims to world of warcraft

4955
02:49:12,230 --> 02:49:10,840
you can see how old my metaphors are

4956
02:49:13,750 --> 02:49:12,240
right

4957
02:49:15,510 --> 02:49:13,760
but you know how long do you play video

4958
02:49:18,150 --> 02:49:15,520
games have you played them before no

4959
02:49:19,830 --> 02:49:18,160
i don't play them when video games were

4960
02:49:21,190 --> 02:49:19,840
a thing and i was young enough to have

4961
02:49:23,830 --> 02:49:21,200
the time to do it

4962
02:49:25,590 --> 02:49:23,840
um you know there were no computers the

4963
02:49:28,630 --> 02:49:25,600
world is a computer anyway so

4964
02:49:30,550 --> 02:49:28,640
yeah so i uh by the time they came

4965
02:49:33,269 --> 02:49:30,560
around even the very crude ones

4966
02:49:35,429 --> 02:49:33,279
you know i was uh you know in my 40s and

4967
02:49:37,190 --> 02:49:35,439
50s and i watched my children play them

4968
02:49:39,110 --> 02:49:37,200
so i have spent some time looking over

4969
02:49:40,309 --> 02:49:39,120
their shoulder because i'm interested in

4970
02:49:41,910 --> 02:49:40,319
how does this work

4971
02:49:43,830 --> 02:49:41,920
you know what's the graphics like you

4972
02:49:47,269 --> 02:49:43,840
know what are the rules and

4973
02:49:48,070 --> 02:49:47,279
it interests me so i watched my kids

4974
02:49:49,670 --> 02:49:48,080
playing them but

4975
02:49:51,110 --> 02:49:49,680
i've never really spent much time

4976
02:49:51,590 --> 02:49:51,120
playing i've always had too many other

4977
02:49:53,670 --> 02:49:51,600
things

4978
02:49:54,710 --> 02:49:53,680
on my plate to do that we're a higher

4979
02:49:56,230 --> 02:49:54,720
priority

4980
02:49:58,870 --> 02:49:56,240
what's the relationship between your

4981
02:50:00,950 --> 02:49:58,880
theory and non-dualism

4982
02:50:02,950 --> 02:50:00,960
well there is a relationship in that

4983
02:50:04,710 --> 02:50:02,960
non-dualism

4984
02:50:06,790 --> 02:50:04,720
basically ends up with the idea that

4985
02:50:08,630 --> 02:50:06,800
we're all one right it's not to us it

4986
02:50:11,830 --> 02:50:08,640
could not us and them

4987
02:50:12,870 --> 02:50:11,840
we're all one thing and mine basically

4988
02:50:14,870 --> 02:50:12,880
says

4989
02:50:16,469 --> 02:50:14,880
we're all pieces of consciousness we're

4990
02:50:18,710 --> 02:50:16,479
all pieces of the

4991
02:50:20,950 --> 02:50:18,720
larger consciousness system now you can

4992
02:50:23,269 --> 02:50:20,960
think of a piece of consciousness and it

4993
02:50:25,110 --> 02:50:23,279
partitions off a little piece of memory

4994
02:50:27,429 --> 02:50:25,120
and and processing power and whatever

4995
02:50:28,870 --> 02:50:27,439
and ah there's an iuc and it

4996
02:50:30,469 --> 02:50:28,880
partitions off a piece of that no

4997
02:50:32,389 --> 02:50:30,479
there's a free will awareness unit

4998
02:50:33,750 --> 02:50:32,399
but it's all just within this larger

4999
02:50:36,150 --> 02:50:33,760
consciousness system

5000
02:50:38,630 --> 02:50:36,160
non-duality basically comes to the we're

5001
02:50:40,710 --> 02:50:38,640
all one and so do i we're all

5002
02:50:41,830 --> 02:50:40,720
we're all one thing which is

5003
02:50:44,630 --> 02:50:41,840
consciousness

5004
02:50:46,389 --> 02:50:44,640
we all have the same purpose which is to

5005
02:50:49,990 --> 02:50:46,399
evolve

5006
02:50:51,670 --> 02:50:50,000
it's uh yeah so in that sense we're the

5007
02:50:54,550 --> 02:50:51,680
same but i think some of the

5008
02:50:57,910 --> 02:50:54,560
non-dualists also go off onto other

5009
02:51:01,110 --> 02:50:57,920
other side issues that i don't i just

5010
02:51:03,190 --> 02:51:01,120
see that yeah as far as i know there are

5011
02:51:05,510 --> 02:51:03,200
five different forms of non-dualism

5012
02:51:06,950 --> 02:51:05,520
so what you're saying is i think modeism

5013
02:51:09,110 --> 02:51:06,960
which is that we all belong to the same

5014
02:51:10,469 --> 02:51:09,120
vellum the same underlying material

5015
02:51:12,550 --> 02:51:10,479
and then there's another that has to do

5016
02:51:14,150 --> 02:51:12,560
advaita i believe that says subject and

5017
02:51:16,150 --> 02:51:14,160
object are the same

5018
02:51:17,910 --> 02:51:16,160
and then there's non-negation which says

5019
02:51:18,630 --> 02:51:17,920
up down left right good evil they're all

5020
02:51:19,990 --> 02:51:18,640
the same

5021
02:51:21,830 --> 02:51:20,000
i don't think that one is what you're

5022
02:51:23,110 --> 02:51:21,840
saying because you do say

5023
02:51:24,790 --> 02:51:23,120
there needs to be a difference in order

5024
02:51:25,910 --> 02:51:24,800
for there to be information because you

5025
02:51:27,830 --> 02:51:25,920
can't have all zeros

5026
02:51:29,349 --> 02:51:27,840
you can't have all ones right there's no

5027
02:51:30,550 --> 02:51:29,359
better exactly right so there has to be

5028
02:51:31,030 --> 02:51:30,560
some difference so then it can't be that

5029
02:51:32,790 --> 02:51:31,040
one

5030
02:51:34,309 --> 02:51:32,800
and then advaya might be something like

5031
02:51:36,070 --> 02:51:34,319
the absolute and relative truths of

5032
02:51:37,830 --> 02:51:36,080
buddhism are one and the same

5033
02:51:39,269 --> 02:51:37,840
now that one you're not saying anything

5034
02:51:40,150 --> 02:51:39,279
about buddhism so obviously that one

5035
02:51:42,710 --> 02:51:40,160
doesn't count

5036
02:51:44,950 --> 02:51:42,720
but you did say something in the opening

5037
02:51:47,269 --> 02:51:44,960
when we were speaking which is that

5038
02:51:48,630 --> 02:51:47,279
my big toe you said it's my big toe

5039
02:51:51,030 --> 02:51:48,640
because it's about

5040
02:51:52,389 --> 02:51:51,040
my subjective understanding of the truth

5041
02:51:55,510 --> 02:51:52,399
and then that made me

5042
02:51:56,150 --> 02:51:55,520
question is truth subjective or is truth

5043
02:51:59,269 --> 02:51:56,160
objective

5044
02:52:00,710 --> 02:51:59,279
in your model ah truth is something that

5045
02:52:02,870 --> 02:52:00,720
um

5046
02:52:04,150 --> 02:52:02,880
that's a good that's a good question the

5047
02:52:05,510 --> 02:52:04,160
uh

5048
02:52:07,670 --> 02:52:05,520
yeah i have a couple of things that i

5049
02:52:10,950 --> 02:52:07,680
say a lot and one of them is

5050
02:52:13,910 --> 02:52:10,960
that uh you must always remain skeptical

5051
02:52:15,349 --> 02:52:13,920
okay it's it's you must be open-minded

5052
02:52:17,190 --> 02:52:15,359
and skeptical

5053
02:52:18,870 --> 02:52:17,200
both at the same time and the other

5054
02:52:20,790 --> 02:52:18,880
thing i say if it's not your experience

5055
02:52:23,510 --> 02:52:20,800
it's not your truth

5056
02:52:23,830 --> 02:52:23,520
so there are things like your truth

5057
02:52:25,830 --> 02:52:23,840
right

5058
02:52:27,429 --> 02:52:25,840
that's your truth yeah meaning

5059
02:52:31,030 --> 02:52:27,439
subjective

5060
02:52:33,670 --> 02:52:31,040
there really is no

5061
02:52:34,389 --> 02:52:33,680
objective world everything is subjective

5062
02:52:37,429 --> 02:52:34,399
now here's

5063
02:52:38,870 --> 02:52:37,439
why that is but the but the what we call

5064
02:52:40,710 --> 02:52:38,880
the objective world

5065
02:52:42,070 --> 02:52:40,720
is just that part of the subjective

5066
02:52:45,429 --> 02:52:42,080
world that has very

5067
02:52:47,910 --> 02:52:45,439
small um

5068
02:52:49,429 --> 02:52:47,920
error bars is it's it's defined it has

5069
02:52:50,230 --> 02:52:49,439
very little uncertainty let me put it

5070
02:52:52,550 --> 02:52:50,240
that way

5071
02:52:53,670 --> 02:52:52,560
so everything is subjective you think

5072
02:52:56,469 --> 02:52:53,680
that it's that this

5073
02:52:58,389 --> 02:52:56,479
you know say a brick take a brick and a

5074
02:53:02,070 --> 02:52:58,399
brick is an objective thing

5075
02:53:05,830 --> 02:53:02,080
all right but it is only in a

5076
02:53:06,469 --> 02:53:05,840
only within the within the idea that

5077
02:53:10,309 --> 02:53:06,479
that brick

5078
02:53:12,630 --> 02:53:10,319
exists with a right has a certain volume

5079
02:53:13,990 --> 02:53:12,640
certain length width height but it

5080
02:53:17,269 --> 02:53:14,000
doesn't really

5081
02:53:17,670 --> 02:53:17,279
if you try to measure that you will find

5082
02:53:19,349 --> 02:53:17,680
that

5083
02:53:20,790 --> 02:53:19,359
there's always a plus or minus on it

5084
02:53:22,870 --> 02:53:20,800
there's always measurement error

5085
02:53:25,349 --> 02:53:22,880
nobody really knows exactly what its

5086
02:53:26,309 --> 02:53:25,359
volume is nobody knows exactly what its

5087
02:53:28,870 --> 02:53:26,319
length height

5088
02:53:31,349 --> 02:53:28,880
you know and exactly what its weight is

5089
02:53:34,870 --> 02:53:31,359
all those things fluctuate

5090
02:53:36,830 --> 02:53:34,880
from second to second so it's really

5091
02:53:38,150 --> 02:53:36,840
all those physical attributes of that

5092
02:53:44,070 --> 02:53:38,160
brick

5093
02:53:44,870 --> 02:53:44,080
really any of those things what we call

5094
02:53:47,269 --> 02:53:44,880
a brick

5095
02:53:49,190 --> 02:53:47,279
is the average of those things it's

5096
02:53:50,150 --> 02:53:49,200
about this long about this high about

5097
02:53:52,389 --> 02:53:50,160
this weight

5098
02:53:54,230 --> 02:53:52,399
see so a brick is really subjective and

5099
02:53:56,150 --> 02:53:54,240
as much as if you had 10 people measure

5100
02:53:57,830 --> 02:53:56,160
it you'd get 10 different answers

5101
02:53:59,349 --> 02:53:57,840
because each one would get to a certain

5102
02:54:00,790 --> 02:53:59,359
point and they're measuring couldn't

5103
02:54:03,910 --> 02:54:00,800
measure it any more than that

5104
02:54:05,990 --> 02:54:03,920
besides the brick is always in flux

5105
02:54:07,269 --> 02:54:06,000
atoms are always leaving or molecules

5106
02:54:10,070 --> 02:54:07,279
are always leaving and

5107
02:54:11,590 --> 02:54:10,080
other things are always coming in it's

5108
02:54:14,309 --> 02:54:11,600
always in flux so

5109
02:54:15,429 --> 02:54:14,319
but the error bars you know a brick plus

5110
02:54:17,590 --> 02:54:15,439
or minus

5111
02:54:19,590 --> 02:54:17,600
is very very small so the uncertainty in

5112
02:54:22,630 --> 02:54:19,600
that brick is really really small

5113
02:54:23,190 --> 02:54:22,640
and but it's still subjective we cannot

5114
02:54:26,550 --> 02:54:23,200
make it

5115
02:54:27,429 --> 02:54:26,560
precise so in the world of everything

5116
02:54:30,150 --> 02:54:27,439
being

5117
02:54:31,590 --> 02:54:30,160
subjective those things that have very

5118
02:54:33,830 --> 02:54:31,600
very small uncertainty

5119
02:54:36,309 --> 02:54:33,840
is what we call the objective world

5120
02:54:39,030 --> 02:54:36,319
those things that have more uncertainty

5121
02:54:39,590 --> 02:54:39,040
like you know what is justice what's

5122
02:54:41,910 --> 02:54:39,600
truth

5123
02:54:43,190 --> 02:54:41,920
see they have a lot of uncertainty well

5124
02:54:46,070 --> 02:54:43,200
then we call those

5125
02:54:47,110 --> 02:54:46,080
subjective because the mind is

5126
02:54:48,950 --> 02:54:47,120
subjective

5127
02:54:51,030 --> 02:54:48,960
and we look at this outside world and it

5128
02:54:52,550 --> 02:54:51,040
has very little uncertainty about where

5129
02:54:53,750 --> 02:54:52,560
it is and how much it weighs and where

5130
02:54:55,670 --> 02:54:53,760
it's located and

5131
02:54:57,110 --> 02:54:55,680
what it can do because that is a little

5132
02:54:59,510 --> 02:54:57,120
small uncertainty about it

5133
02:55:00,870 --> 02:54:59,520
so everything is really subjective in

5134
02:55:02,150 --> 02:55:00,880
that different people would get

5135
02:55:05,269 --> 02:55:02,160
different answers

5136
02:55:08,630 --> 02:55:05,279
but if it has a very small uncertainty

5137
02:55:09,910 --> 02:55:08,640
it approximates being objective so it's

5138
02:55:13,110 --> 02:55:09,920
approximately

5139
02:55:15,910 --> 02:55:13,120
objective to a very good approximation

5140
02:55:16,870 --> 02:55:15,920
you see so that's the way it is so yes

5141
02:55:21,030 --> 02:55:16,880
you can have

5142
02:55:22,950 --> 02:55:21,040
subjective science subjective states

5143
02:55:24,309 --> 02:55:22,960
things that are reproducible

5144
02:55:28,070 --> 02:55:24,319
explanations that

5145
02:55:30,950 --> 02:55:28,080
are consistent and logical and accurate

5146
02:55:32,630 --> 02:55:30,960
over in the in the stuff with high

5147
02:55:35,030 --> 02:55:32,640
uncertainty too

5148
02:55:35,910 --> 02:55:35,040
but that on the uncertainty is a part of

5149
02:55:37,590 --> 02:55:35,920
them

5150
02:55:39,429 --> 02:55:37,600
you know they are uncertain so you have

5151
02:55:40,870 --> 02:55:39,439
to say that over here in the subjective

5152
02:55:42,309 --> 02:55:40,880
world you got to deal with more

5153
02:55:43,910 --> 02:55:42,319
uncertainty

5154
02:55:46,150 --> 02:55:43,920
it's not that everything is flim-flam

5155
02:55:47,030 --> 02:55:46,160
over there it's that you have to realize

5156
02:55:49,110 --> 02:55:47,040
that there's

5157
02:55:51,110 --> 02:55:49,120
uncertainties about things and a lot of

5158
02:55:52,469 --> 02:55:51,120
that uncertainty comes from the fact

5159
02:55:55,590 --> 02:55:52,479
that we have a very

5160
02:55:58,469 --> 02:55:55,600
untrained undeveloped

5161
02:56:00,550 --> 02:55:58,479
intuitive side and we're lousy with with

5162
02:56:01,030 --> 02:56:00,560
our intuition because of that our minds

5163
02:56:03,830 --> 02:56:01,040
are

5164
02:56:05,349 --> 02:56:03,840
jumping everywhere we can't focus uh we

5165
02:56:07,429 --> 02:56:05,359
have all these beliefs

5166
02:56:09,590 --> 02:56:07,439
which folk you know which change what it

5167
02:56:10,790 --> 02:56:09,600
is we can the data that we can accept we

5168
02:56:13,269 --> 02:56:10,800
get data that's

5169
02:56:13,910 --> 02:56:13,279
not con you know not within our beliefs

5170
02:56:16,950 --> 02:56:13,920
and we just

5171
02:56:17,590 --> 02:56:16,960
throw it away we refuse it we won't even

5172
02:56:19,510 --> 02:56:17,600
look at it

5173
02:56:21,269 --> 02:56:19,520
conscious system won't even register it

5174
02:56:24,630 --> 02:56:21,279
no that's that was noise

5175
02:56:27,349 --> 02:56:24,640
skip it because it's not with our belief

5176
02:56:29,190 --> 02:56:27,359
so in that world you can also be

5177
02:56:32,230 --> 02:56:29,200
scientific but you have to take

5178
02:56:36,550 --> 02:56:32,240
probability into account

5179
02:56:39,510 --> 02:56:36,560
because there's lots of of uh

5180
02:56:39,990 --> 02:56:39,520
uh uncertainty whereas with the brick

5181
02:56:42,230 --> 02:56:40,000
you don't have

5182
02:56:43,349 --> 02:56:42,240
to take probability into account it's a

5183
02:56:45,590 --> 02:56:43,359
brick

5184
02:56:47,750 --> 02:56:45,600
you know i don't care if it's a

5185
02:56:49,670 --> 02:56:47,760
thousandth of a millimeter

5186
02:56:51,110 --> 02:56:49,680
longer or fatter or lumpy or whatever

5187
02:56:52,630 --> 02:56:51,120
doesn't make any difference

5188
02:56:54,469 --> 02:56:52,640
so that's the difference in the world so

5189
02:56:56,870 --> 02:56:54,479
the science can apply everywhere

5190
02:56:58,150 --> 02:56:56,880
it can apply where there's very small

5191
02:56:58,950 --> 02:56:58,160
uncertainties and where there's large

5192
02:57:02,150 --> 02:56:58,960
uncertainties

5193
02:57:03,590 --> 02:57:02,160
science is just basically logic that

5194
02:57:07,750 --> 02:57:03,600
explains

5195
02:57:08,230 --> 02:57:07,760
facts that's what science is so if i can

5196
02:57:10,630 --> 02:57:08,240
give you

5197
02:57:13,510 --> 02:57:10,640
logic that explains why you feel the way

5198
02:57:15,830 --> 02:57:13,520
you feel and why you get angry

5199
02:57:17,349 --> 02:57:15,840
and it explains that with a model and

5200
02:57:19,269 --> 02:57:17,359
you look at it and you say well yeah

5201
02:57:21,269 --> 02:57:19,279
okay i got that stuff but i got that and

5202
02:57:25,349 --> 02:57:21,279
sure enough that's the result

5203
02:57:27,190 --> 02:57:25,359
there's anger and it it tells you about

5204
02:57:29,190 --> 02:57:27,200
what's inside your mind then that's a

5205
02:57:30,230 --> 02:57:29,200
good model if you look at my model and

5206
02:57:31,830 --> 02:57:30,240
it doesn't explain

5207
02:57:34,070 --> 02:57:31,840
your experience then it's not a good

5208
02:57:35,510 --> 02:57:34,080
model or you just don't understand it

5209
02:57:37,510 --> 02:57:35,520
you know one of the other but in either

5210
02:57:40,630 --> 02:57:37,520
case it's not useful so

5211
02:57:41,110 --> 02:57:40,640
you know throw it out so that's the idea

5212
02:57:43,750 --> 02:57:41,120
so

5213
02:57:44,950 --> 02:57:43,760
all of reality is just one thing and

5214
02:57:48,150 --> 02:57:44,960
that's

5215
02:57:53,750 --> 02:57:48,160
why you can have one overarching

5216
02:57:58,389 --> 02:57:56,870
thomas it's been a pleasure

5217
02:58:00,630 --> 02:57:58,399
i know you got to go or your wife is

5218
02:58:01,990 --> 02:58:00,640
going to kill you is it all right if i

5219
02:58:03,830 --> 02:58:02,000
just ask you there's a couple audience

5220
02:58:04,389 --> 02:58:03,840
questions you can just bang him out yeah

5221
02:58:06,230 --> 02:58:04,399
okay

5222
02:58:07,750 --> 02:58:06,240
it's hard for me to bang anything out as

5223
02:58:11,269 --> 02:58:07,760
you've as you've discovered but

5224
02:58:12,550 --> 02:58:11,279
uh go ahead okay someone said so excited

5225
02:58:14,150 --> 02:58:12,560
this should be a fun interview

5226
02:58:15,670 --> 02:58:14,160
one thing i'd like to ask tom about is

5227
02:58:17,110 --> 02:58:15,680
spiritual determinism classical

5228
02:58:17,830 --> 02:58:17,120
determinism comes from a belief that

5229
02:58:20,309 --> 02:58:17,840
matter

5230
02:58:22,150 --> 02:58:20,319
is fundamental physicalism and so on and

5231
02:58:23,269 --> 02:58:22,160
it's held by mainstream science however

5232
02:58:24,790 --> 02:58:23,279
recent quantum phys

5233
02:58:26,710 --> 02:58:24,800
let me read this through because this is

5234
02:58:27,990 --> 02:58:26,720
a bit wordy okay i'm gonna have to skip

5235
02:58:30,309 --> 02:58:28,000
that one because it's gonna take me

5236
02:58:32,309 --> 02:58:30,319
quite some time just to read it

5237
02:58:33,750 --> 02:58:32,319
what's just can you assume can you just

5238
02:58:35,190 --> 02:58:33,760
without all the explanations okay

5239
02:58:37,269 --> 02:58:35,200
let me just read it on my own and then

5240
02:58:38,710 --> 02:58:37,279
i'll sum it up because quite a bit

5241
02:58:41,030 --> 02:58:38,720
you can just define spiritual

5242
02:58:42,550 --> 02:58:41,040
determinism i don't know what

5243
02:58:44,309 --> 02:58:42,560
i don't know what spiritual determinism

5244
02:58:46,550 --> 02:58:44,319
is that's okay okay

5245
02:58:47,830 --> 02:58:46,560
whatever common belief in mainstream

5246
02:58:49,590 --> 02:58:47,840
science is that it's physicalism i think

5247
02:58:51,030 --> 02:58:49,600
it means materialism look physicalism is

5248
02:58:53,670 --> 02:58:51,040
materialism with fundamental laws

5249
02:58:55,269 --> 02:58:53,680
okay however recent quantum physics

5250
02:58:55,830 --> 02:58:55,279
refute this dogmatic belief on the other

5251
02:58:57,750 --> 02:58:55,840
hand

5252
02:58:59,110 --> 02:58:57,760
spiritual non-duality teachers start

5253
02:59:00,790 --> 02:58:59,120
with the opposite assumption that

5254
02:59:03,030 --> 02:59:00,800
consciousness is fundamental

5255
02:59:04,469 --> 02:59:03,040
yet they seem to claim that life is

5256
02:59:06,790 --> 02:59:04,479
predetermined

5257
02:59:08,630 --> 02:59:06,800
this claim is based on the teachings of

5258
02:59:10,710 --> 02:59:08,640
the highly respected masters such as

5259
02:59:14,230 --> 02:59:10,720
ramana maharshi

5260
02:59:16,790 --> 02:59:14,240
so and so on and many others for example

5261
02:59:18,469 --> 02:59:16,800
ramesh was known for his statement life

5262
02:59:19,750 --> 02:59:18,479
is like a scripted movie that's already

5263
02:59:21,910 --> 02:59:19,760
been completed

5264
02:59:24,630 --> 02:59:21,920
yeah it's in the can yeah i disagree

5265
02:59:28,389 --> 02:59:24,640
with all of that that is not the case

5266
02:59:31,830 --> 02:59:28,399
um their determinism is a

5267
02:59:35,190 --> 02:59:31,840
dead idea and i i would say

5268
02:59:38,790 --> 02:59:35,200
evolution is open-ended evolution

5269
02:59:41,269 --> 02:59:38,800
is choice choice making and the results

5270
02:59:42,950 --> 02:59:41,279
either evolve and go forward or they you

5271
02:59:45,110 --> 02:59:42,960
know they don't

5272
02:59:47,030 --> 02:59:45,120
they don't work out and they disappear

5273
02:59:48,870 --> 02:59:47,040
so it's always open-ended

5274
02:59:50,150 --> 02:59:48,880
and we are evolving toward lowering

5275
02:59:52,309 --> 02:59:50,160
entropy and you

5276
02:59:53,990 --> 02:59:52,319
never actually get to zero entropy

5277
02:59:55,030 --> 02:59:54,000
you're always working on it and as soon

5278
02:59:56,790 --> 02:59:55,040
as you stop

5279
02:59:58,630 --> 02:59:56,800
working on lowering your entropy your

5280
03:00:02,070 --> 02:59:58,640
entropy starts to increase

5281
03:00:04,950 --> 03:00:02,080
so there's always something to do so

5282
03:00:07,349 --> 03:00:04,960
no it's there is no determinism in this

5283
03:00:10,230 --> 03:00:07,359
and i think where that comes from

5284
03:00:12,790 --> 03:00:10,240
why these these gurus say that is

5285
03:00:16,630 --> 03:00:14,950
in order in our culture these days and

5286
03:00:19,830 --> 03:00:16,640
that's everywhere

5287
03:00:23,349 --> 03:00:19,840
that if you conflict directly

5288
03:00:25,030 --> 03:00:23,359
with science you're wrong

5289
03:00:26,630 --> 03:00:25,040
so these are they want to be accepted by

5290
03:00:28,550 --> 03:00:26,640
mainstream science

5291
03:00:30,230 --> 03:00:28,560
they want the cake they need to they

5292
03:00:33,030 --> 03:00:30,240
want to be accepted by

5293
03:00:34,070 --> 03:00:33,040
mainstream thought mainstream attitudes

5294
03:00:35,750 --> 03:00:34,080
not just science

5295
03:00:37,190 --> 03:00:35,760
science isn't going to go you know

5296
03:00:39,030 --> 03:00:37,200
except their religion but

5297
03:00:40,870 --> 03:00:39,040
just people when they say this thing

5298
03:00:41,990 --> 03:00:40,880
about determinism that's oh yeah okay

5299
03:00:43,349 --> 03:00:42,000
einstein

5300
03:00:44,950 --> 03:00:43,359
you know and his relativity and his

5301
03:00:46,070 --> 03:00:44,960
light cone and all that kind of stuff

5302
03:00:48,230 --> 03:00:46,080
you have time

5303
03:00:49,429 --> 03:00:48,240
you know the future in the past and all

5304
03:00:52,870 --> 03:00:49,439
exists at once and so on

5305
03:00:54,950 --> 03:00:52,880
yada yada so that has been publicized so

5306
03:00:55,670 --> 03:00:54,960
much because it's such a wowzy kind of

5307
03:00:59,110 --> 03:00:55,680
thing

5308
03:01:02,550 --> 03:00:59,120
that they have to meet that or they're

5309
03:01:04,070 --> 03:01:02,560
wrong and okay your your you know your

5310
03:01:05,910 --> 03:01:04,080
religion or whatever you got conflicts

5311
03:01:06,550 --> 03:01:05,920
with science science says it's not that

5312
03:01:09,110 --> 03:01:06,560
way

5313
03:01:13,030 --> 03:01:09,120
so i think that's why these guys end up

5314
03:01:14,550 --> 03:01:13,040
with that because they're trying to be

5315
03:01:16,150 --> 03:01:14,560
right you know they're trying to be on

5316
03:01:19,030 --> 03:01:16,160
the right side of science

5317
03:01:19,990 --> 03:01:19,040
but it's just not that way that math is

5318
03:01:23,030 --> 03:01:20,000
just being interpreted

5319
03:01:24,710 --> 03:01:23,040
wrong it doesn't mean that it's that's

5320
03:01:27,510 --> 03:01:24,720
how they're interpreting it

5321
03:01:29,110 --> 03:01:27,520
math is not the physical world math is

5322
03:01:32,309 --> 03:01:29,120
trying to be a description but you have

5323
03:01:34,790 --> 03:01:32,319
math and then you interpret it to be

5324
03:01:36,950 --> 03:01:34,800
a model of the physical world but these

5325
03:01:39,030 --> 03:01:36,960
interpretations can be wrong

5326
03:01:39,990 --> 03:01:39,040
you know they don't necessarily mean

5327
03:01:42,230 --> 03:01:40,000
that

5328
03:01:43,349 --> 03:01:42,240
it's just the interpretation people give

5329
03:01:45,269 --> 03:01:43,359
to it

5330
03:01:46,950 --> 03:01:45,279
that the past and the future and the

5331
03:01:47,830 --> 03:01:46,960
present are all happening at the same

5332
03:01:51,590 --> 03:01:47,840
time

5333
03:01:54,710 --> 03:01:51,600
is just the logical

5334
03:01:56,469 --> 03:01:54,720
doesn't make any sense and to say oh

5335
03:01:59,190 --> 03:01:56,479
yeah but that's what the equations say

5336
03:02:00,389 --> 03:01:59,200
no they're misinterpreting the equations

5337
03:02:02,550 --> 03:02:00,399
technically don't say that

5338
03:02:04,950 --> 03:02:02,560
because they don't even with classical

5339
03:02:06,469 --> 03:02:04,960
mecha sorry if yes classical mechanics

5340
03:02:08,389 --> 03:02:06,479
nicholas jessen who's a professor of

5341
03:02:10,070 --> 03:02:08,399
physics he makes a great argument that

5342
03:02:11,750 --> 03:02:10,080
you can't actually say that classical

5343
03:02:13,670 --> 03:02:11,760
mechanics is deterministic

5344
03:02:15,429 --> 03:02:13,680
because according to our evidence we

5345
03:02:18,469 --> 03:02:15,439
don't know past the error bar

5346
03:02:19,030 --> 03:02:18,479
and so it could be a finite amount of

5347
03:02:20,309 --> 03:02:19,040
digits

5348
03:02:21,510 --> 03:02:20,319
and then as soon as you have a finite

5349
03:02:22,469 --> 03:02:21,520
amount of digits you can have

5350
03:02:24,150 --> 03:02:22,479
indeterminacy

5351
03:02:26,070 --> 03:02:24,160
and then in addition to that science

5352
03:02:27,349 --> 03:02:26,080
presupposes free will on the part of the

5353
03:02:28,550 --> 03:02:27,359
practitioner otherwise you have

5354
03:02:29,990 --> 03:02:28,560
correlations and then all your

5355
03:02:31,750 --> 03:02:30,000
scientific experiments are not

5356
03:02:33,110 --> 03:02:31,760
i agree with all of that he's a huge

5357
03:02:34,710 --> 03:02:33,120
proponent of free will

5358
03:02:36,710 --> 03:02:34,720
although it's funny because he dislikes

5359
03:02:37,670 --> 03:02:36,720
god and virtually all spirituality as

5360
03:02:39,110 --> 03:02:37,680
far as i could tell

5361
03:02:41,030 --> 03:02:39,120
but he's a huge proponent of free will

5362
03:02:42,389 --> 03:02:41,040
and usually those don't go hand in hand

5363
03:02:43,830 --> 03:02:42,399
usually it's the opposite no usually

5364
03:02:45,429 --> 03:02:43,840
it's the other way around and he also

5365
03:02:46,309 --> 03:02:45,439
made a great argument that if real

5366
03:02:47,670 --> 03:02:46,319
numbers were real

5367
03:02:49,349 --> 03:02:47,680
real he said real numbers should be

5368
03:02:50,389 --> 03:02:49,359
called imaginary numbers because they

5369
03:02:52,950 --> 03:02:50,399
have infinite precision

5370
03:02:54,309 --> 03:02:52,960
and if real numbers were real we should

5371
03:02:55,510 --> 03:02:54,319
have black holes all around us because

5372
03:02:57,030 --> 03:02:55,520
each particle is carrying around an

5373
03:02:58,469 --> 03:02:57,040
infinite amount of information

5374
03:03:01,349 --> 03:02:58,479
and infinite and information has a

5375
03:03:03,269 --> 03:03:01,359
relationship to energy yeah right

5376
03:03:05,269 --> 03:03:03,279
yeah he's just poking little logical

5377
03:03:07,990 --> 03:03:05,279
holes and and you know this

5378
03:03:08,309 --> 03:03:08,000
these beliefs that physicists have okay

5379
03:03:10,550 --> 03:03:08,319
last

5380
03:03:11,349 --> 03:03:10,560
question this one's fairly easy for you

5381
03:03:12,550 --> 03:03:11,359
to answer says

5382
03:03:14,710 --> 03:03:12,560
you have stated that your model assumes

5383
03:03:16,309 --> 03:03:14,720
two things consciousness and evolution

5384
03:03:18,389 --> 03:03:16,319
however if objective science is to

5385
03:03:19,990 --> 03:03:18,399
explain if the objective of science is

5386
03:03:21,830 --> 03:03:20,000
to explain more with less

5387
03:03:24,389 --> 03:03:21,840
wouldn't the final simplest step be to

5388
03:03:25,830 --> 03:03:24,399
explain everything with nothing

5389
03:03:28,150 --> 03:03:25,840
rather than to explain everything with

5390
03:03:30,070 --> 03:03:28,160
consciousness so why would something as

5391
03:03:31,429 --> 03:03:30,080
seemingly complex as consciousness be

5392
03:03:34,230 --> 03:03:31,439
more fundamental than

5393
03:03:35,830 --> 03:03:34,240
nothing as the true foundation okay

5394
03:03:38,389 --> 03:03:35,840
that's easy to answer

5395
03:03:40,150 --> 03:03:38,399
nothing doesn't take you any place you

5396
03:03:42,710 --> 03:03:40,160
know it's like um

5397
03:03:43,750 --> 03:03:42,720
you can answer every question with god

5398
03:03:46,790 --> 03:03:43,760
does it

5399
03:03:53,030 --> 03:03:46,800
you know why

5400
03:03:53,990 --> 03:03:53,040
you know stop god does it everything so

5401
03:03:56,309 --> 03:03:54,000
there's just one answer

5402
03:03:58,389 --> 03:03:56,319
for everything god does it all right

5403
03:04:01,670 --> 03:03:58,399
well what's wrong with that

5404
03:04:03,590 --> 03:04:01,680
what's it's not anything logically

5405
03:04:05,429 --> 03:04:03,600
wrong with that in the sense that you

5406
03:04:07,269 --> 03:04:05,439
could say that

5407
03:04:08,630 --> 03:04:07,279
there's an assumption god exists and god

5408
03:04:10,070 --> 03:04:08,640
does everything right that's the

5409
03:04:10,550 --> 03:04:10,080
assumption but given that assumption

5410
03:04:12,950 --> 03:04:10,560
then

5411
03:04:14,790 --> 03:04:12,960
that's logical god does everything but

5412
03:04:15,750 --> 03:04:14,800
what's wrong with that little piece of

5413
03:04:18,150 --> 03:04:15,760
logic

5414
03:04:19,750 --> 03:04:18,160
is that it doesn't go anywhere it

5415
03:04:21,590 --> 03:04:19,760
doesn't tell you anything

5416
03:04:23,269 --> 03:04:21,600
it doesn't explain anything it doesn't

5417
03:04:26,309 --> 03:04:23,279
give you any insight

5418
03:04:29,910 --> 03:04:26,319
it doesn't help you understand you see

5419
03:04:32,630 --> 03:04:29,920
it's a it's like the you know the

5420
03:04:33,030 --> 03:04:32,640
the null set okay then i have a better

5421
03:04:35,349 --> 03:04:33,040
theory

5422
03:04:37,030 --> 03:04:35,359
it's all it's almost useless in a better

5423
03:04:38,309 --> 03:04:37,040
theory it's just god statement

5424
03:04:40,469 --> 03:04:38,319
god did everything and you're not meant

5425
03:04:42,950 --> 03:04:40,479
to understand

5426
03:04:45,030 --> 03:04:42,960
now well it's the same thing okay so

5427
03:04:46,469 --> 03:04:45,040
what does that help me

5428
03:04:48,150 --> 03:04:46,479
do you're not meant to you're not meant

5429
03:04:50,630 --> 03:04:48,160
to be i'm not meant to understand so

5430
03:04:51,269 --> 03:04:50,640
it's not useful you see it doesn't have

5431
03:04:52,630 --> 03:04:51,279
anything

5432
03:04:54,790 --> 03:04:52,640
it doesn't have any function yeah it's

5433
03:04:57,110 --> 03:04:54,800
not meant to be useful but see people

5434
03:04:58,790 --> 03:04:57,120
like things that like meaning they like

5435
03:04:59,670 --> 03:04:58,800
to understand they like to be able to

5436
03:05:01,190 --> 03:04:59,680
predict

5437
03:05:02,790 --> 03:05:01,200
they like to be able to say well you

5438
03:05:04,070 --> 03:05:02,800
know if i do this and then that and that

5439
03:05:06,950 --> 03:05:04,080
this is going to happen

5440
03:05:07,750 --> 03:05:06,960
they'd like to be able to find reasons

5441
03:05:11,590 --> 03:05:07,760
for things

5442
03:05:14,950 --> 03:05:11,600
explanations um what do we call it the

5443
03:05:16,950 --> 03:05:14,960
um you know

5444
03:05:17,990 --> 03:05:16,960
consequences all all of that kind of

5445
03:05:20,630 --> 03:05:18,000
stuff is important

5446
03:05:22,790 --> 03:05:20,640
to people to understand the reality why

5447
03:05:24,389 --> 03:05:22,800
do you feel the way you do

5448
03:05:26,790 --> 03:05:24,399
why does this happen why does that

5449
03:05:28,230 --> 03:05:26,800
happen you know why is the sky blue

5450
03:05:29,830 --> 03:05:28,240
all these things you know well god made

5451
03:05:31,269 --> 03:05:29,840
it blue well that doesn't tell you

5452
03:05:31,670 --> 03:05:31,279
anything you know if you understand

5453
03:05:33,830 --> 03:05:31,680
about

5454
03:05:35,349 --> 03:05:33,840
light scattering and the wavelength of

5455
03:05:35,990 --> 03:05:35,359
the light and the particle sizes that

5456
03:05:37,750 --> 03:05:36,000
are there

5457
03:05:40,230 --> 03:05:37,760
then you can oh that makes sense okay

5458
03:05:42,630 --> 03:05:40,240
that's you know why we have seasons uh

5459
03:05:44,230 --> 03:05:42,640
you know why it gets from light to dark

5460
03:05:47,349 --> 03:05:44,240
you know all these things help

5461
03:05:49,830 --> 03:05:47,359
us understand our world better and

5462
03:05:51,670 --> 03:05:49,840
help us make better choices as here we

5463
03:05:52,870 --> 03:05:51,680
are to make choices and if we can't make

5464
03:05:53,510 --> 03:05:52,880
any choices because we don't know

5465
03:05:55,670 --> 03:05:53,520
anything

5466
03:05:57,510 --> 03:05:55,680
then everything's random and nothing has

5467
03:06:00,070 --> 03:05:57,520
any purpose or any point

5468
03:06:01,750 --> 03:06:00,080
so the reason that that is not a good

5469
03:06:03,030 --> 03:06:01,760
answer isn't that it's necessarily

5470
03:06:04,550 --> 03:06:03,040
illogical

5471
03:06:06,630 --> 03:06:04,560
god does it and you're not supposed to

5472
03:06:09,990 --> 03:06:06,640
know then that's a

5473
03:06:12,830 --> 03:06:10,000
assumption and it but it goes nowhere

5474
03:06:14,630 --> 03:06:12,840
it offers nothing it just leaves you

5475
03:06:16,230 --> 03:06:14,640
empty whereas

5476
03:06:18,389 --> 03:06:16,240
a solution that actually gives you a

5477
03:06:20,550 --> 03:06:18,399
model here's how reality works oh you're

5478
03:06:22,389 --> 03:06:20,560
miserable and unhappy well here's how

5479
03:06:23,990 --> 03:06:22,399
here's where happiness comes from here's

5480
03:06:26,710 --> 03:06:24,000
how it works

5481
03:06:27,670 --> 03:06:26,720
here's how you end up with that you see

5482
03:06:29,590 --> 03:06:27,680
oh you know

5483
03:06:30,790 --> 03:06:29,600
the sky's blue well here's here's why

5484
03:06:33,830 --> 03:06:30,800
that sky's blue

5485
03:06:34,870 --> 03:06:33,840
it helps you it helps you create

5486
03:06:36,389 --> 03:06:34,880
technology

5487
03:06:38,070 --> 03:06:36,399
it helps you build things you know we

5488
03:06:39,670 --> 03:06:38,080
have internets we can do this kind of

5489
03:06:43,030 --> 03:06:39,680
communication that we're doing

5490
03:06:46,389 --> 03:06:43,040
because we've made models of things

5491
03:06:51,110 --> 03:06:46,399
models and the models work so it helps

5492
03:06:54,469 --> 03:06:51,120
give us more possibilities

5493
03:06:57,910 --> 03:06:54,479
more possibilities are on our way to

5494
03:07:00,070 --> 03:06:57,920
better evolution so that's why that

5495
03:07:01,670 --> 03:07:00,080
simple answer is not a better answer is

5496
03:07:02,870 --> 03:07:01,680
because it doesn't deliver anything

5497
03:07:06,230 --> 03:07:02,880
significant

5498
03:07:07,830 --> 03:07:06,240
i got through only half of one page

5499
03:07:10,150 --> 03:07:07,840
so we'll have to save the rest for next

5500
03:07:11,429 --> 03:07:10,160
time but i do recall you saying that you

5501
03:07:13,030 --> 03:07:11,439
were able to look at a photograph and

5502
03:07:14,550 --> 03:07:13,040
see auras so you could see auras in

5503
03:07:15,590 --> 03:07:14,560
person at least at one point or if your

5504
03:07:17,429 --> 03:07:15,600
intention was correct

5505
03:07:19,110 --> 03:07:17,439
and then someone showed you a photograph

5506
03:07:20,630 --> 03:07:19,120
and you were able to see auras now does

5507
03:07:21,590 --> 03:07:20,640
that mean that the auras were captured

5508
03:07:23,670 --> 03:07:21,600
with photons

5509
03:07:25,349 --> 03:07:23,680
and then can you see over zoom can you

5510
03:07:27,190 --> 03:07:25,359
see auras over movies yeah sure

5511
03:07:28,790 --> 03:07:27,200
doesn't no they're not captured with the

5512
03:07:30,070 --> 03:07:28,800
film or anything else like it not have

5513
03:07:32,150 --> 03:07:30,080
anything to do with that all it has to

5514
03:07:34,870 --> 03:07:32,160
do with is intent

5515
03:07:36,230 --> 03:07:34,880
it's all information so that information

5516
03:07:39,349 --> 03:07:36,240
is available

5517
03:07:41,429 --> 03:07:39,359
in an intuitive space so all i have to

5518
03:07:43,670 --> 03:07:41,439
do is have the intent

5519
03:07:45,030 --> 03:07:43,680
and i have to give it the output format

5520
03:07:48,630 --> 03:07:45,040
well i i want

5521
03:07:50,309 --> 03:07:48,640
the the colors in the aura to

5522
03:07:52,469 --> 03:07:50,319
represent this that or the other thing i

5523
03:07:53,990 --> 03:07:52,479
make up an output format i can make up

5524
03:07:56,150 --> 03:07:54,000
any output format i want

5525
03:07:57,110 --> 03:07:56,160
and then i query the database and i get

5526
03:08:00,550 --> 03:07:57,120
the information

5527
03:08:02,710 --> 03:08:00,560
of a colored picture

5528
03:08:04,469 --> 03:08:02,720
and i tell the system what colors i want

5529
03:08:05,429 --> 03:08:04,479
to mean what then that's how i get the

5530
03:08:07,110 --> 03:08:05,439
information

5531
03:08:08,790 --> 03:08:07,120
so it's just that there that's what i

5532
03:08:10,550 --> 03:08:08,800
said we have all this information out

5533
03:08:13,670 --> 03:08:10,560
there on the intuitive side

5534
03:08:15,750 --> 03:08:13,680
that is available to us and

5535
03:08:17,750 --> 03:08:15,760
the reason we have all that information

5536
03:08:19,349 --> 03:08:17,760
out there is i can explain is it's

5537
03:08:21,670 --> 03:08:19,359
necessary

5538
03:08:23,110 --> 03:08:21,680
to for the for the rendering engine to

5539
03:08:25,030 --> 03:08:23,120
render the virtual reality

5540
03:08:26,630 --> 03:08:25,040
it needs some databases to help it do

5541
03:08:29,750 --> 03:08:26,640
that on the fly

5542
03:08:30,710 --> 03:08:29,760
so these databases become that it needs

5543
03:08:34,710 --> 03:08:30,720
to render

5544
03:08:36,469 --> 03:08:34,720
become our source of information and

5545
03:08:38,230 --> 03:08:36,479
you can just get that so it's not that

5546
03:08:39,990 --> 03:08:38,240
there was anything in the picture at all

5547
03:08:42,230 --> 03:08:40,000
has nothing to do with that

5548
03:08:43,990 --> 03:08:42,240
it just has it my mind has an intention

5549
03:08:46,710 --> 03:08:44,000
the intention collects the data

5550
03:08:47,990 --> 03:08:46,720
i get the data and my output format is

5551
03:08:49,830 --> 03:08:48,000
around that person i see

5552
03:08:53,030 --> 03:08:49,840
some kind of colored thing there is no

5553
03:08:55,030 --> 03:08:53,040
aura there's only information

5554
03:08:56,389 --> 03:08:55,040
are you able to get information from the

5555
03:08:58,950 --> 03:08:56,399
mind space world

5556
03:08:59,990 --> 03:08:58,960
that is more rigorous so for example

5557
03:09:01,510 --> 03:09:00,000
something i was going to ask you about

5558
03:09:03,910 --> 03:09:01,520
quantum field theory was

5559
03:09:05,670 --> 03:09:03,920
how because it's a small tone

5560
03:09:07,510 --> 03:09:05,680
unification that i'm interested

5561
03:09:09,349 --> 03:09:07,520
the second quantization in quantum field

5562
03:09:10,550 --> 03:09:09,359
theory is not rigorously defined same

5563
03:09:12,309 --> 03:09:10,560
with the path integral

5564
03:09:13,750 --> 03:09:12,319
so i was wondering can you query the

5565
03:09:15,750 --> 03:09:13,760
database and find out

5566
03:09:17,030 --> 03:09:15,760
how to rigorously define them or does it

5567
03:09:20,150 --> 03:09:17,040
not work like that

5568
03:09:22,070 --> 03:09:20,160
it probably wouldn't work like that

5569
03:09:24,469 --> 03:09:22,080
it might if you really understood it

5570
03:09:26,870 --> 03:09:24,479
well enough to

5571
03:09:28,469 --> 03:09:26,880
to see the big picture what was going on

5572
03:09:30,150 --> 03:09:28,479
then it might work like that because

5573
03:09:32,229 --> 03:09:30,160
what you might learn is that neither one

5574
03:09:35,349 --> 03:09:32,239
of them's right the whole idea

5575
03:09:36,630 --> 03:09:35,359
the whole the whole structure is wrong

5576
03:09:37,670 --> 03:09:36,640
minded

5577
03:09:40,469 --> 03:09:37,680
right right right but just like

5578
03:09:40,870 --> 03:09:40,479
newtonian gravity is a lower case limit

5579
03:09:42,550 --> 03:09:40,880
of

5580
03:09:43,990 --> 03:09:42,560
general relativity there may be some

5581
03:09:45,349 --> 03:09:44,000
deeper theory that can produce it and

5582
03:09:46,389 --> 03:09:45,359
then from that you can get the rigorous

5583
03:09:48,150 --> 03:09:46,399
foundation

5584
03:09:49,510 --> 03:09:48,160
yeah so the whole thing that you're

5585
03:09:51,030 --> 03:09:49,520
asking about though what i'm saying

5586
03:09:52,710 --> 03:09:51,040
might just be wrong

5587
03:09:54,229 --> 03:09:52,720
so you're asking the wrong question it's

5588
03:09:57,190 --> 03:09:54,239
like

5589
03:09:58,870 --> 03:09:57,200
you know what kind of tutus do flying

5590
03:10:00,469 --> 03:09:58,880
elephants wear

5591
03:10:01,990 --> 03:10:00,479
you know and you try to get that from

5592
03:10:02,630 --> 03:10:02,000
the database well there are no flying

5593
03:10:04,630 --> 03:10:02,640
elephants

5594
03:10:06,950 --> 03:10:04,640
you're you're asking something that

5595
03:10:10,070 --> 03:10:06,960
doesn't really

5596
03:10:11,990 --> 03:10:10,080
exist okay so i would see that would

5597
03:10:13,429 --> 03:10:12,000
probably be what you get sometimes but

5598
03:10:15,830 --> 03:10:13,439
let's say that's not the case let's say

5599
03:10:18,790 --> 03:10:15,840
it does exist and it is fundamental

5600
03:10:20,790 --> 03:10:18,800
could you get information like that yes

5601
03:10:22,229 --> 03:10:20,800
you could get information like that you

5602
03:10:25,110 --> 03:10:22,239
could get

5603
03:10:26,870 --> 03:10:25,120
only as much though as that you can

5604
03:10:29,190 --> 03:10:26,880
understand

5605
03:10:30,389 --> 03:10:29,200
okay so you have to be real close to the

5606
03:10:32,469 --> 03:10:30,399
understanding

5607
03:10:33,429 --> 03:10:32,479
to make sense of the information you get

5608
03:10:34,950 --> 03:10:33,439
this sounds just like

5609
03:10:37,030 --> 03:10:34,960
you know in the matrix one of the lines

5610
03:10:38,469 --> 03:10:37,040
that was the best was we can't see past

5611
03:10:41,110 --> 03:10:38,479
the choices we don't understand

5612
03:10:42,150 --> 03:10:41,120
exactly that line that line like it

5613
03:10:46,389 --> 03:10:42,160
makes me

5614
03:10:49,429 --> 03:10:46,399
original matrix

5615
03:10:50,550 --> 03:10:49,439
i watched it like about a week ago maybe

5616
03:10:51,590 --> 03:10:50,560
i was prepping for this interview

5617
03:10:53,910 --> 03:10:51,600
unconsciously

5618
03:10:55,429 --> 03:10:53,920
i watched it and i cried like four times

5619
03:10:57,030 --> 03:10:55,439
during it and not when people died but

5620
03:10:59,030 --> 03:10:57,040
there's some lines that are so

5621
03:11:00,150 --> 03:10:59,040
profound yeah well look at it what

5622
03:11:02,630 --> 03:11:00,160
happens if you take a

5623
03:11:04,389 --> 03:11:02,640
you know a cell phone to some little

5624
03:11:06,150 --> 03:11:04,399
tribe in the amazon jungle that's never

5625
03:11:08,710 --> 03:11:06,160
seen any technology

5626
03:11:10,229 --> 03:11:08,720
and you say okay here's a cell phone and

5627
03:11:11,990 --> 03:11:10,239
here's the schematics

5628
03:11:13,830 --> 03:11:12,000
and here's the dial here's here's the

5629
03:11:15,670 --> 03:11:13,840
you know the write-up that explains

5630
03:11:17,990 --> 03:11:15,680
everything in that cell phone

5631
03:11:18,710 --> 03:11:18,000
well what are they going to do with it

5632
03:11:20,630 --> 03:11:18,720
nothing

5633
03:11:21,990 --> 03:11:20,640
maybe they burn the paper to start fires

5634
03:11:23,590 --> 03:11:22,000
you know what are they going to do

5635
03:11:25,830 --> 03:11:23,600
with it well that one might be a bad

5636
03:11:27,269 --> 03:11:25,840
example because they gave some ipads to

5637
03:11:28,469 --> 03:11:27,279
people who have never seen ipads before

5638
03:11:29,590 --> 03:11:28,479
didn't even give them instructions and

5639
03:11:31,269 --> 03:11:29,600
then they were turning it on and

5640
03:11:33,190 --> 03:11:31,279
installing apps within a week

5641
03:11:34,870 --> 03:11:33,200
yeah so that i understand what you're

5642
03:11:36,550 --> 03:11:34,880
saying but that's learning

5643
03:11:38,790 --> 03:11:36,560
yeah they can learn and that's just a

5644
03:11:40,950 --> 03:11:38,800
trial and error and see what happens

5645
03:11:42,710 --> 03:11:40,960
but something like a cell phones are

5646
03:11:45,590 --> 03:11:42,720
going to acquire you know uh uh

5647
03:11:46,070 --> 03:11:45,600
integrated integrated processing units

5648
03:11:48,070 --> 03:11:46,080
and

5649
03:11:50,229 --> 03:11:48,080
lots of other things you know which yeah

5650
03:11:52,070 --> 03:11:50,239
which like imagine

5651
03:11:53,590 --> 03:11:52,080
yeah it's not something you're gonna do

5652
03:11:54,309 --> 03:11:53,600
just by pushing buttons and seeing what

5653
03:11:57,429 --> 03:11:54,319
happens

5654
03:12:00,309 --> 03:11:57,439
you can't get there that way so unless

5655
03:12:01,190 --> 03:12:00,319
they understood how to make a cell phone

5656
03:12:02,550 --> 03:12:01,200
almost

5657
03:12:04,229 --> 03:12:02,560
and this would give them just the last

5658
03:12:06,550 --> 03:12:04,239
piece they need okay

5659
03:12:07,429 --> 03:12:06,560
then it would work but if you take if

5660
03:12:10,630 --> 03:12:07,439
you're ignorant

5661
03:12:12,229 --> 03:12:10,640
of the answer and you get the answer you

5662
03:12:15,030 --> 03:12:12,239
won't understand it

5663
03:12:16,790 --> 03:12:15,040
so it only works in the fact that you

5664
03:12:19,269 --> 03:12:16,800
are just that far away from it

5665
03:12:20,550 --> 03:12:19,279
you've kind of got the general idea and

5666
03:12:22,950 --> 03:12:20,560
you just need some

5667
03:12:23,590 --> 03:12:22,960
inspiration to so it can put you one

5668
03:12:25,110 --> 03:12:23,600
step ahead

5669
03:12:26,870 --> 03:12:25,120
it can put you one or two steps in yeah

5670
03:12:27,830 --> 03:12:26,880
but it's not that's it it's not going to

5671
03:12:28,950 --> 03:12:27,840
give you the whole thing because

5672
03:12:30,229 --> 03:12:28,960
and even if it did you wouldn't have the

5673
03:12:31,429 --> 03:12:30,239
context to make sense of it no you

5674
03:12:32,790 --> 03:12:31,439
wouldn't make any sense of it so you

5675
03:12:34,710 --> 03:12:32,800
know maybe we are being thrown

5676
03:12:35,990 --> 03:12:34,720
and we just aren't understanding the

5677
03:12:39,190 --> 03:12:36,000
science we've got we got

5678
03:12:40,790 --> 03:12:39,200
lots of i mean look at this you know the

5679
03:12:42,630 --> 03:12:40,800
the insights that suddenly come to

5680
03:12:43,670 --> 03:12:42,640
people you know einstein writing on his

5681
03:12:46,150 --> 03:12:43,680
beam of light

5682
03:12:46,950 --> 03:12:46,160
or whatever and you'll see that a lot of

5683
03:12:49,349 --> 03:12:46,960
people

5684
03:12:51,030 --> 03:12:49,359
both artists and scientists get their

5685
03:12:53,830 --> 03:12:51,040
inspiration

5686
03:12:55,510 --> 03:12:53,840
from the non-physical intuitively oh

5687
03:12:58,070 --> 03:12:55,520
that's the solution you know it just

5688
03:12:58,950 --> 03:12:58,080
comes to them not when they're trying to

5689
03:13:01,110 --> 03:12:58,960
get it but

5690
03:13:02,710 --> 03:13:01,120
when they forget about it and relax and

5691
03:13:05,429 --> 03:13:02,720
think of something else and then

5692
03:13:06,389 --> 03:13:05,439
bang they get it from intuitive space

5693
03:13:08,950 --> 03:13:06,399
but it's only

5694
03:13:09,750 --> 03:13:08,960
got to be a half step beyond where they

5695
03:13:11,190 --> 03:13:09,760
where they are

5696
03:13:12,870 --> 03:13:11,200
otherwise they'll get it and it won't

5697
03:13:15,110 --> 03:13:12,880
make any sense and that didn't mean

5698
03:13:16,870 --> 03:13:15,120
anything you know so

5699
03:13:18,870 --> 03:13:16,880
there's a line from the new testament

5700
03:13:22,150 --> 03:13:18,880
which also you can ponder for

5701
03:13:22,950 --> 03:13:22,160
like ages makes me weepy it says jesus

5702
03:13:24,790 --> 03:13:22,960
said

5703
03:13:26,229 --> 03:13:24,800
the kingdom of god lies before you but

5704
03:13:28,950 --> 03:13:26,239
men do not see it

5705
03:13:29,670 --> 03:13:28,960
yeah sure geez man that's that's that's

5706
03:13:32,150 --> 03:13:29,680
powerful

5707
03:13:33,110 --> 03:13:32,160
yeah that is the way it is i mean it's

5708
03:13:34,950 --> 03:13:33,120
all simple

5709
03:13:36,389 --> 03:13:34,960
it's this virtu once you get the idea of

5710
03:13:37,590 --> 03:13:36,399
virtual reality and everything's

5711
03:13:39,830 --> 03:13:37,600
information

5712
03:13:41,190 --> 03:13:39,840
it just reduces almost all the

5713
03:13:43,110 --> 03:13:41,200
complexity

5714
03:13:45,030 --> 03:13:43,120
not only in science but just in everyday

5715
03:13:48,950 --> 03:13:45,040
life reduces

5716
03:13:50,630 --> 03:13:48,960
to really really a few simple ideas

5717
03:13:52,309 --> 03:13:50,640
that are very powerful and everything

5718
03:13:53,030 --> 03:13:52,319
makes sense it is all right in front of

5719
03:13:56,710 --> 03:13:53,040
you

5720
03:13:58,150 --> 03:13:56,720
thinking

5721
03:14:00,070 --> 03:13:58,160
right you know your perspective isn't

5722
03:14:02,309 --> 03:14:00,080
right

5723
03:14:04,070 --> 03:14:02,319
thank you so much man you've pushed me

5724
03:14:05,349 --> 03:14:04,080
you pushed my car which is

5725
03:14:07,269 --> 03:14:05,359
the engine hasn't been working you

5726
03:14:08,630 --> 03:14:07,279
pushed it on the on-ramp i got it now

5727
03:14:10,870 --> 03:14:08,640
start it and i gotta

5728
03:14:13,030 --> 03:14:10,880
start driving i might go backward and

5729
03:14:14,389 --> 03:14:13,040
i'm hopefully i can go forward

5730
03:14:16,229 --> 03:14:14,399
well when you get reading the book and

5731
03:14:16,790 --> 03:14:16,239
you have issues with it think about the

5732
03:14:18,469 --> 03:14:16,800
thing

5733
03:14:20,630 --> 03:14:18,479
think about the idea that it's a virtual

5734
03:14:22,229 --> 03:14:20,640
reality that we're in a game we are

5735
03:14:25,190 --> 03:14:22,239
really consciousness

5736
03:14:25,750 --> 03:14:25,200
and and we're just playing this avatar

5737
03:14:27,269 --> 03:14:25,760
and

5738
03:14:29,510 --> 03:14:27,279
that will sometimes give you the

5739
03:14:31,110 --> 03:14:29,520
perspective that's necessary to see

5740
03:14:32,870 --> 03:14:31,120
the bigger picture because as soon as

5741
03:14:35,750 --> 03:14:32,880
you start with the physical

5742
03:14:36,710 --> 03:14:35,760
and it has to you know fall into a

5743
03:14:39,269 --> 03:14:36,720
materialistic

5744
03:14:40,630 --> 03:14:39,279
uh you know belief system then nothing

5745
03:14:42,550 --> 03:14:40,640
will work it'll all fall apart

5746
03:14:44,630 --> 03:14:42,560
we can do this again once you've had

5747
03:14:46,469 --> 03:14:44,640
plenty of time to digest that and

5748
03:14:48,070 --> 03:14:46,479
maybe finish the books and maybe even

5749
03:14:48,710 --> 03:14:48,080
for the second time you know and your

5750
03:14:51,990 --> 03:14:48,720
questions

5751
03:14:53,429 --> 03:14:52,000
and smaller they're going to get bigger

5752
03:14:54,389 --> 03:14:53,439
and bigger for a while and then as you

5753
03:14:55,830 --> 03:14:54,399
understand it they're going to get

5754
03:14:58,389 --> 03:14:55,840
smaller and smaller

5755
03:14:59,030 --> 03:14:58,399
so um and if the people who are

5756
03:15:00,790 --> 03:14:59,040
listening

5757
03:15:02,150 --> 03:15:00,800
you have any questions please leave them

5758
03:15:03,590 --> 03:15:02,160
in the comments below if you want us if

5759
03:15:06,229 --> 03:15:03,600
you desperately wanted me to talk to